Helicopter Fighters

[Zombolt]

Hello, well I had a neet idea.

With the advent of Vtol attacker, and attack helicopters, some forces might think of having a fighter that can also pop out of nowhere, and deal with pop up targets.

I know we have man portable SAM's and the like, yet a Helicopter meant for attacking other helicopters might be a nice change of pace?

[Maverick]

When the Ka-50 was first talked about, some sources suggested that it was indeed a 'helicopter fighter', specifically designed to counter NATO attack helos in addition to the traditional 'gunship' type role.  This can be evidenced in some way by the configuration of the early Hokums being single-seat aircraft which seems odd for a more traditional helicopter mission.

Whether the idea has real merit depends on the versatility of the design with obvious advantages being (hopefully) enhanced maneuverability and hence survivability.  In the context of the modern battlefield, however, the drawbacks start to become apparent with the variety of anti-air assets available to a modern or even third-world army.

Regards,

Mav

[The Wooksta!]

Perhaps you really want one of these!

[Zombolt]

Perhaps you really want one of these!

I was thinking of something slimmer, maybe uglier.


Though I have a yard sale Su-21(it has no canopy) I was going to merge that with a helicopter, to counter prevalent Allied air power or something(it's a relatively new idea I had, sorry.)

[Taiidantomcat]

I know initial reports of the Kamov Ka-50 were that it was designed to fight other helicopters in an air-to-air role. I think the idea was that fixed wing aircraft would be too busy fighting other fixed wing machines, striking deep targets, and dodging AAA and SAMs. So Helicopters would probably be left relatively unscathed. I think the Ka-50 turned out to be a conventional attack helicopter but its Co-ax rotors give it superior maneuverability and I believe anti air/helicopter is a secondary role.

although its not a purpose built design some helicopters are AAM capable:





Welcome aboard  

no need to be "sorry" It sounds like a great idea! A Flagon chopper! I am trying to think we have any links of folks turning airplanes into helicopters... can anyone help?

[Zombolt]

I know initial reports of the Kamov Ka-50 were that it was designed to fight other helicopters in an air-to-air role. I think the idea was that fixed wing aircraft would be too busy fighting other fixed wing machines, striking deep targets, and dodging AAA and SAMs. So Helicopters would probably be left relatively unscathed. I think the Ka-50 turned out to be a conventional attack helicopter but its Co-ax rotors give it superior maneuverability and I believe anti air/helicopter is a secondary role.

although its not a purpose built design some helicopters are AAM capable:


Welcome aboard  

no need to be "sorry" It sounds like a great idea! A Flagon chopper! I am trying to think we have any links of folks turning airplanes into helicopters... can anyone help?

Well that is on hold untill I get a heli to donate, and the tools.
Until then, I have the Nato stop gap response, a Fighter variant of the AH-64 Apache, with some AA weapons I have on hand. (Mostly from a broken F-15c)

[dy031101]

I think the Ka-50 turned out to be a conventional attack helicopter but its Co-ax rotors give it superior maneuverability and I believe anti air/helicopter is a secondary role.

although its not a purpose built design some helicopters are AAM capable...

Attack helicopters inevitably come face to face against those of the opposing forces and/or become tasked with escorting other, less maneuverable ones, both scenarioes for which people inevitably look at air-to-air missiles as an option.

[Weaver]

There was a Hughes proposal for the LHX competition (that begat the RAH-66 Comanche) that was very aircraft-like. Spindle-shaped fuselage, blown canopy, NOTAR.... don't know how practical it was but it looked gorgeous!

Welcome aboard, by the way! 


FOUND IT!

[rickshaw]

The "fighter" role is usually fulfilled by modified scout helicopters equipped with MANPADS modified for air-to-air use or a number of MGs or a cannon.    Problem is, most attack helicopters are so well armoured, its doubful that MGs or cannon could do sufficient harm to stop one, while they can usually perform as well as the scout choppers, if not better with as high or higher speeds.  MANPADS also tend to have small warheads, so their damage while larger might not be sufficient.

BAE introduced the SABA "mud fighter" concept in the mid-1980s - a light, agile small, usually turboprop powered aircraft equipped with cannot and/or missiles capable to destroying a heavily armoured attack chopper.   Aircraft can usually turn tighter and faster than most helicopters who aren't hovering, or so the reasoning went.  The "mud fighter" was intended to be stressed to 10+Gs and be extremely manoeuvrable.

[Weaver]

Also, MANPADS and small AAMs tend to be IR homing, but attack helos are relatively poor IR targets, with supressed exhausts and the massive downwash from the rotors, not to mention flares and the option of terrain masking. The best weapon would probably be something like Starstreak or RBS-70, because they're laser-command-guided/beam-riding, not an IR homing.

You could probably package 2+ Starstreaks plus a guidance package into a pod that could be hung under something like a Super Tucano or PC-9/PC-21 to make an economical helo fighter.

[Cobra]

Welcome & Great Idea this Almost sounds like something from Either,Thunderbirds,Captain Scarlet,or Joe 90! if You plan to Build a Helicopter Fighter,You may want to Consider something like a Lynx or Gazelle! Stay Cool. Dan

[Zombolt]

I was planning on using what I have, as I do not have the tools for a major remodel. like I said, I have a F-15c and it's sidewinder and sparrow missiles. I'll go into the Flagon copter tomorrow.

[ChernayaAkula]

That AH-1Z Viper pic is pure aviation pr0n.   As much as I like the Mi-24 and Ka-50, the AH-1Z must be the deadliest-looking helo gunship ever designed. 
-----

I always thought hanging AAMs on helicopters was a good idea.  

Here's a twin Igla-container on the inboard pylon of a Mi-35M demonstrator. The caps on the front are connected and flip thru 90° to open the tubes.



This was a hoax by the armourers, but the basic idea seems sound. Later in it's career (apparently after that Cessna landed on the Red Square), Hinds were actually equipped with AA-8 Aphids to intercept slow-moving aircraft. There were also tests with AA-11 Archers.



Again a hoax. This time by Belgian armourers.  

[GTX]

Did anyone ever release a model kit of this one?

Regards,

Greg

[PR19_Kit]

I envisage a Rotodyne with a 4 x 20 mm turret at both ends, and there's LOTS of wing area to hang AAMs from as well!