Countering the Submarine threat

[proditor]

With the allies still smarting from the disaster at Dunkirk, and Operation Overlord still in the future, Germany has flooded the seas with the new type XXI submarine.  Fast, stealthy and capable, they outrun the destroyer escorts and attack at will.  A faster hunter-killer team is needed to supplement the now surprisingly vulnerable escort carrier, and thanks to the convergence of Weapon Alpha, The Sumner class destroyer, and the genius of Igor Sikorsky, the first fast ASW kill team is formed.  Helicopter operations from the deck of a destroyer are challenging, but the combination begins to turn the tide.

I have the following either here, or on the way.

[Cliffy B]

*Grabs popcorn*

You have my attention, proceed sir!  Glad I'm not the only one doing ships.

[Hobbes]

Weapon Alpha?

[Thorvic]

Anti-submarine mortar in a semi-automatic trainable gun mount, late war design implimented in the 1950's. Similar role to the Limbo in using targeted depth charges rather than the random area scatter of fixed depth charges or hedgehog mortars.

[Thorvic]

I take it the helicopter provides the spotting for the snorkel marking the target and plotting firing solutions to the ASW Destroyer.

Have you thought of doing the Brogue as an ASW carrier with Dragonfly and Avengers with ASW armed Sumner escort ?.

Look forward to seeing how the build goes, as will be nice to see the new weapons but with the clutter of AA guns & camo of the wartime era rather than the cleaner and leaner 50s versions 

Cheers

Geoff

[rickshaw]

I take it the helicopter provides the spotting for the snorkel marking the target and plotting firing solutions to the ASW Destroyer.

Except Submarines do not nor did not snort when an enemy ship is around.

More likely it would be the Helicopter providing spotting around the ASW destroyer, extending its visual detection range, thereby forcing the Submarine to remain below the surface and dive deep while the convoy moves out of attack range.

[Taiidantomcat]

brilliant idea 

[Hobbes]

Well, IIRC in WW2 it was still SOP to attack at periscope depth and aim visually. So periscope spotting would be a valid tactic.
Plus until the advent of the Type XXI, speeds on electric power were low, so attacking using the diesels wasn't out of the question.

[rickshaw]

Well, IIRC in WW2 it was still SOP to attack at periscope depth and aim visually. So periscope spotting would be a valid tactic.
Plus until the advent of the Type XXI, speeds on electric power were low, so attacking using the diesels wasn't out of the question.

SOP for U-Boats changed drastically at various stages during the war.  Initially attacks were conducted against lone ships on the surface, in daylight, utilising guns.  That quickly changed to surface attacks, usually at night, utilising torpedos.  Most attacks were conducted that way until the advent of surface search radar made it too dangerous.  Then attacks reverted to sub-surface and effectiveness dropped drastically, simply 'cause unless the U-Boat was in an optimal position in front of the Convoy before the attack began, there was no way for it to catch the Convoy while submerged.  Not even Type XXI or Type XXIII were capable of that, particularly if the Convoy had a head start.  Their high speed was intended to allow them to more effectively to evade escort attacks, rather than allow them to make attacks of their own whilst submerged.   They simply lacked the endurance for a sustained trailing chase while submerged.

[Weaver]

The earliest MATCH helicopters on small warships (such as the Wasp) were used purely as a weapon delivery system, dropping a depth charge or homing torpedo at a set of coordinates provided by the mother ship's sonar. Of course, they're hugely useful in other ways too, but also limited by being more weather sensitive and accident prone than something like Limbo or ASROC.

[PR19_Kit]

Probably because an early Wasp toting a Mk 46 and a crew of two couldn't carry anything else and still fly! 

The later ones, with the pokier engine, could carry two Mk 46s as I recall, but it was all very marginal.

[proditor]

Update!

I'm waiting for the upgrade set with the Wepaon Alpha mount, but I got a bit done in the meantime.

So, we started here, by just fitting a flight deck.



I then added the collapsable hanger, moved a 40mm gun tub, put in the hand cut flight deck supports (That was a pain...), and sanded down the offensive bits.  I then put in the framing for the pull out "hanger". 

Still to do:
Put together microscopically small helicopter
Fit remaining weapons
Put in deckhouse/flight control on side of hanger.

[Cliffy B]

Hey Prod, I have line drawings of the Sumners and Gearings ranging from as built until decom highlighting every major change along the way including the early flight deck mods.  Would they help at all?  Let me know and I can e-mail them to you.

[proditor]

Hey Prod, I have line drawings of the Sumners and Gearings ranging from as built until decom highlighting every major change along the way including the early flight deck mods.  Would they help at all?  Let me know and I can e-mail them to you.

That would be pretty awesome, thanks!  I ripped off the telescoping hanger earlier today after the reality of trying to use something like that in the North Atlantic sunk in.  Darn H-5 is a long chopper, I hope I have enough space with the new hanger starting by the aft funnel. 

You can mail me at john.ivicek_at_gmail.com. 

[Cliffy B]

If you want a good early helo to use try one of Sikorsky's R-4s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_R-4

http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/sik_r-4.php

The USCG operated some of these during the war and were rescuing people from the sea as early as 1944 if not earlier.  I know they used them in the Atlantic for sure, not sure of the other Theaters.  The Army used them in the China-Burma-India Theater.  There was a float equipped version as well that would be perfect for C-SAR ops in the vast Atlantic.



Hope that helps some.  Let me compile the drawings, they're 300 DPI scans so I might have to send you multiple e-mails.  Look for them in a day or so.

-Mike

Edit:  All of them will fit into one e-mail, sending now!