Operation Downfall markings

[rickshaw]

I've seen over the years, various models painted with "invasion stripes" for the invasion of Japan - Operation Downfall.  However, their colours have varied somewhat.   Should they be just broad white ones, black and white or blue and white or some other colour/combination?  Any suggestions?

[NARSES2]

A lot of the aircraft would have not been camouflaged. What I've seen would suggest that these would simply have either black or very dark blue stripes in a similar manner to the RAF's white SEAC theatre markings. However I've seen nothing definitive and whatever was chosen would have been able to have been applied quickly

[rickshaw]

SEAC theatre markings?  Were they the broad white stripes mid-wing?

[Maverick]

Broad stripes mid wing & mid tailplane, not going onto the control surfaces, ditto for the vertical tail.  White for camouflaged aircraft, dark blue for NM finished machines.

Regards,

Mav

[NARSES2]

Like this one mate

[madcatter]

It seams to me that this wouldn't have been obvious enough.  Aircraft in the ETO had often had black or white wing stripes but when it came to the actual invasion this was considered insufficient.  I main reason for these markings was to make it easier for the ground forces to identify an allied aircraft from below and for other allied aircraft to identify it from above.  All in the interest of preventing friendly fire incidents as much as possible.

SO, considering the invasion of Japan would have been THAT much messier with thing like itchy trigger fingers and fear of kamikaze attacks, I think the markings would have been AT LEAST as obvious is those for Overlord.

The SEAC markings were only seen on aircraft flown by people that used broken English anyway!  The US aircraft which provided the majority in theatre had no such markings so it's unlikely that any consideration would be given just because the British aircraft had stripes already.

My opinion is that extra stripes would have been added to what was already there.  Consider another white/black/white/black/white theme with wider bands than the D-Day stripes, based loosely on the width and positioning of the SEAC stripes.  Something similar would be specified for all tactical aircraft in theatre.

Another option would be the huge black stripes already carried on some of the P-51 and P-47 escorts in the area.  Perhaps someone thought of this as a feasibility study to test the recognition of these stripes from a distance for possible use in the upcoming invasion of Japan.

I've had this question in my head for years and these are the two most likely scenarios I've come up with.  Keep in mind, it's all in my head and I have absolutely no reference.

-N8

[comrade harps]

I've gone for yellow and orange Downfall stripes. Here's why I've got the Downfall Candy Coloured Air Force in the 1946 GB:

These invasion stripes differed from those applied for D-Day in Europe partly because white was to avoided. Japanese fighters based in Japan featured white fuselage and wing bands signifying their homeland defence role. Instead, colourful stripes were chosen that would be visually striking on both darkly painted naval and aluminium finished air force aircraft. Several schemes had been tested on a USAAF Thunderbolt and a USN Hellcat and the best on both was an orange-yellow-orange arrangement.

Here's a couple of examples:





I've yet to do these stripes in a dark blue USN style camo, but I do point out that post-war USN Reserve a/c had a high-viz orange stripe.

How it would have worked out for real, who knows?

[rickshaw]

I ended up opting for a combination of British Pacific Fleet markings - as they were in 1945, around Japan and SEAC stripes:

[Maverick]

Looks the stuff Brian.  I think the SEAC markings are certainly enough.

Regards,

Mav

[madcatter]

I don't want to sound like I'm trying to discredit anyone elses opinion but the stripes would have covered 1000's of aircraft, probably within 24 hours and thus would have to be done in a color that was readily available to every unit at quantity.  Black and white.

Again, my problem with the SEAC stripes is no matter how obvious they look when you're staring at a model, they're less obvious on an aircraft seen at odd angles 5000 feet overhead.

The US Marines and soldiers would have some training in aircraft recognition including British aircraft, same for the Empire's troops and US aircraft.  Not enough though.  Furthermore, there's almost nothing on the side view.  From a few thousand feet, how different is a Bearcat going to look than a N1K, especially in the heat of battle.  George Preddy was leading a group of natural metal P-51's with brilliant blue noses when he was shot down by friendly fire.  Lots of itchy trigger fingers in December 1944.  It's a fair guess that Japan in 1946 would have been considerably worse.

Invasion stripes HAVE to be eye catching and glaringly obvious otherwise there's no point in having them.  I don't think the Allied command would be comfortable with 'good enough'.  Excessive is the name of the game.

-N8

[comrade harps]

I don't want to sound like I'm trying to discredit anyone elses opinion but the stripes would have covered 1000's of aircraft, probably within 24 hours and thus would have to be done in a color that was readily available to every unit at quantity.  Black and white.

The Poms and French used yellow and black fro the Suez invasion, but some a/c had black and white stripes because there wasn't enough yellow to go round. The yellow, though, showed up really well on the dark blue coloured French Corsairs - I've seen some of those with the the black and yellow stripes and some with just the yellow, because it's all about contrast. If you were planning something as big as Downfall, though, I'm sure you could arrange a good paint supply beforehand - and orange and be mixed from red and yellow in the field, too.

I chose orange and yellow simpley because I was looking for an excuse to use orange paint and I wanted something bright. The story came about as a way to explain an application of orange.

[jcf]

ID would be easy by the time an invasion actually occurred, if it's flyin' it's ours.

[NARSES2]

ID would be easy by the time an invasion actually occurred, if it's flyin' it's ours.

Understand your point Jon but I'd bet on naval AA gunners still having a pop. My dad said that RN AA fired at any aircraft in the Med almost as a matter of principle because from 1940 to mid 1942 it was almost guaranteed to be Axis. They just carried this principal into the Pacific when he joined the BPF.

[madcatter]

I can't remember where I read it but the reports by the occupation forces about the number of attack aircraft Japan had in reserve for the invasion are staggering.  Jets and rockets would presumably have been included by the time of the actual invasion.

-N8

[jcf]

I can't remember where I read it but the reports by the occupation forces about the number of attack aircraft Japan had in reserve for the invasion are staggering.  Jets and rockets would presumably have been included by the time of the actual invasion.

-N8

Airplanes without fuel are just expensive lawn art.

Japanese late war aviation plans were just like German late war aviation plans, a lot of wishful thinking.