TSR.2 trainer

[Nigel Bunker]

I was thinking about making a trainer version of our favourite plane. Looking at the trainer drawing in Damien's book, that's one big piece of unsupported perspex. Would it have been a one piece canopy or would it have had some metal support bars or was it two inches thick? And does anybody know of a comparable one piece canopy on another aircraft of that period?

[The Wooksta!]

B57? 

[Mossie]

Someone mentioned using the Airfix TSR.2MS canopy as a basis for a smash form.  I think the real one was slightly different, I believe the sills were made a little more shallow?

[pyro-manic]

Voodoo or Phantom might work?

[Gondor]

Someone mentioned using the Airfix TSR.2MS canopy as a basis for a smash form.  I think the real one was slightly different, I believe the sills were made a little more shallow?

That may have been me untill I found out that someone had done a one piece canopy. No one will be able to tell if the canopy not quite right if it is in the open position which is what I plan to do.

Gondor

[PR19_Kit]

The B-47 had a monster canopy, quite a bit bigger than the TSR2 I'd guess, but of course there is only the Hasegawa kit (which probably costs over £100 by now......  ) but I have an idea that Falcon do a B-47 canopy in one of their sets.

[The Wooksta!]

A 48th Gnat canopy is almost, but not quite, right. IIRC (and I'm sure TsrJoe will correct me) but Folland did the design work for the TSR2 trainer canopy.

I have a resin plug somewhere (found it t'other day) if someone wants to use it as a basis to adapt intoa master plug for a vacform canopy.

[rickshaw]

A 48th Gnat canopy is almost, but not quite, right. IIRC (and I'm sure TsrJoe will correct me) but Folland did the design work for the TSR2 trainer canopy.

I have a resin plug somewhere (found it t'other day) if someone wants to use it as a basis to adapt intoa master plug for a vacform canopy.

Who does a 1/48 Gnat (I assume two seater)?

[Nigel Bunker]

When I was asking about a comparable sized canopy, it was not to use on a model but to see how an unsupported canopy that size behaved. Unless it was quite thick, I believe it would have suffered from problems of flexing at high speed.

[The Wooksta!]

IIRC, the trainer would have been limited to mach 1.3.

[DamienB]

The trainer canopy is not that big - additional locking hooks on the sill (just forward of the aft edge of the existing inter-canopy structure) and strengthened sills and hinge points were the only measures considered necessary by the designers and bear in mind that 'unsupported perspex' (it wasn't perspex - preferred choice was acrylic) was mounted on a pretty chunky bit of metal. Also as per the diagram on page 313, it had twin powered hydraulic jacks to raise the canopy unlike the single self-balanced jacks of the strike version. The thicker metalwork at the rear end of the canopy dealt with much of the structural loads and also hid an expansion joint that allowed the acrylic to expand slightly as it warmed up. Acrylic material thickness was 0.5". The one-piece acrylic canopy was also unsuitable for electrical demisting so it would not have been golden in appearance.

As for speed limits, these were because of the thermal limits on the acrylic canopy, not any weakness of its structure. Brochure suggested limits of 0.8M at sea level, 1.6 at 40,000 ft but the RAF were prepared to accept 450 kt IAS, a maximum of M1.4 at altitude. However, bearing in mind the comments elsewhere in the book on stability at higher Mach numbers and the reduced top speeds in the revised specification, who knows what sort of limits could have been in place for the trainer!

[JayBee]

NB,

What scale are you looking to build it in?

Jim

[TsrJoe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poly(methyl_methacrylate)

i concur with Damien's notes above tho too re the canopy description, there were 3 designs shown in the files ranging frm flat through to quite a marked bulging, the one selected for development seemingly beween the two (see Damien's excellent TSR.2 volume for details)
just a snippet, the ICI tradenames of 'perspex' and 'lexan' have been on common use for years for acrylic and polycarbonate materials, even to the extent of official papers citing 'perspex' where the more general term acrylic would be more suitable (i'll admit to using the terms interchangably myself in my professional work environ too  ) its ok we know what you ment

cheers, Joe

ps. def agree with Lee, the 48 Gnat canopy is ideal for a 72 TSR.2 trainer one, id happily vacuform up a batch if someone has a suitable master

[PR19_Kit]

id happily vacuform up a batch if someone has a suitable master

That'd be anyone who has a Stratos 4 then 

[Nigel Bunker]

NB,

What scale are you looking to build it in?

Jim

72 scale, and I had planned on moulding my own canopy rather than robbing another kit.