Sea Spooky

[Army of One]

I made the choice of aircraft based on the title of the title of the thread.....to me the question asked was about the type of aircraft that could be used utilising side firing armament hence 'Spooky'......most of the examples given are big hitting strafers........not looking to argue......I personally like the Douglas A26 Invader...solid nose with just about anything you wanna put in it....also wing guns....and possibly cheek guns....with a healthy droppable load....delete wing guns to hang more ordanance from the wings......and some defensive guns........all in all....loadsa guns....n some bombs/rockets......

[Weaver]

I'd be inclined to go for range over fire-rate: some of those U-boats had nasty 20mm batteries...

How about a couple of 40mm Bofors? You should be able to arrange those in a bomber or flying boat in such a way that a crewman can slap fresh clips into them. Of course the ultimate is something like the B-25H's 75mm.

[ChernayaAkula]

<...> Ditto the Japanese in the China Sea. So perhaps a Ju 52 ala the Vietnam era AC-47?

And if it hasn't got to be WWII and anti-shipping, a Spooky Ju-52 would be just the ticket for the French (license-built AAC.1 Toucan) in Indochina or Algeria.

[Daryl J.]

How about the Douglas DC-5/R3D series?   Are there any kits  of it available?   

[The Big Gimper]

Always on Evil-Bay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ESCI-1-72-R4D-5-SOUTH-POLE-PIONEER-9019-NEW-OOP-/200577396429?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb3582ecd

A lot 3 DC-3/R4D just sold:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Model-Lot-NN-Esci-1-72-Kits-F-104-R4D-5-2x-Dakota-/370484959821?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56429fda4d

[jcf]

How about the Douglas DC-5/R3D series?   Are there any kits  of it available?   

The Execuform kit is still available from Mike Herrill:
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26801.msg401351.html#msg401351

[The Big Gimper]

My bad on the R3D. 

Never heard of it but nice looking A/C. 

[philp]

Given the propensity of some U-Boat commanders to fight it out against an aircraft attack (especially if they were recharging batteries and it was a single aircraft) the proposal of a pylon turn attack is a good idea if you have the right stand off weapon.  The 40mm probably being the best option.

Also think this weapon could have been used in the anti armor role against those Tigers and Panthers (as long as there weren't any 88mm AA guns around or enemy fighters).  The C-47 could have been adopted for that role.

[tigercat]

Some interesting ideas.

My plan is to mate the wings and tail of a c119 with the fuselage of a Chinook. However I'm wavering towards a 40mm mounted firing forward and some guns firing sideways both to be used in the Traditional spooky role if necessary but also too beat off Junkers 88 and the like.

[Burncycle]

I do like the thought of a JU-52 gunship for the Germans especially in the med though. Maybe a version with a sideways firing 20mm and a 75mm recoilless Rifle to support fallschirmjagers in Crete? Or maybe an Me-323?

Given the propensity of some U-Boat commanders to fight it out against an aircraft attack (especially if they were recharging batteries and it was a single aircraft) the proposal of a pylon turn attack is a good idea if you have the right stand off weapon.  The 40mm probably being the best option.

Historically there was a proposal in WWII to develop gunships just for that purpose. The idea is that with a limited amount of time available (diving submarine) or in a situation where they're shooting back, it's beneficial to be able to bring your armament to bear on the target continuously, rather than have to break off and make passes.  I think a gunship would be able to clear the decks of a submarine in fairly short order; there would be a few caveats though... for one, I think the initial engagement would favor a more conventional attack aircraft when it comes to how quickly you can get into position for your first attack.  

An attack aircraft with forward oriented armament can commit in a shallow dive, which should be faster once you make initial detection. Further, forward mounted armament will almost always be more powerful -- more machine guns, cannons, rockets, bombs and depth charges as part of the attack run, and so on.  Once that pass is made though... you have the disadvantage of having to break away and come around for another pass.  

Compared to a gunship -- where you can engage with guns or ordnance, but you have to choose as the attack patterns are mutually exclusive.  Break orbit and bomb them, or maintain orbit and strafe them... or (ideally) you can carry a cannon heavy enough to threaten the integrity of the hull so you can just pound it from afar.

So what could one use... if we're talking a C-47, a 40mm almost certainly wouldn't work... too large, too heavy, and positioned way too far aft of the CG (not to mention the recoil). On another aircraft maybe, but not sure what would be large enough.

A 20mm would probably lack sufficient penetrating power, but maybe a 37mm like the deck gun used on PT boats... the weapon is a lot lighter and more compact, and fires a lower velocity round at a decent rate. Or perhaps a 75mm pack howitzer (just the gun, not the carriage) on a soft / long recoilling mount.  Even if the recoil upsets the stability of the aircraft for a short period of time, it's a single shot weapon so the aircraft would have time to settle in between shots.

Alternative ideas...

Maybe a Catalina with a 37mm and a couple of .50 calibers in the waist oriented out one side, and when the attack runs are being made the nose turret could just slew to that side and add to the firepower.

Or an SBD Dauntless or avenger with a single 20mm on the rear gunner mount directed to one side, to help during the island hopping campaign. A single 20mm should be able to handle enemy machine gun nests and other fighting positions (Think K-Car's in Rhodesia), and with flares the aircraft could operate at night in support of marines.  In the Philippines they could help take out enemy barges and landing craft at night.

It'd be interesting if they had miniguns back then!

How about a WWII version of the OV-10 Bronco? Small enough to operate off of carriers, and enough cargo room in the back for maybe a turret like the NOGS with a single barrel 20mm. Point it 90 degrees to the left and slightly down for a gunship role, or straight ahead for more conventional attacks.

[tigercat]

Some form of minigun is probably feasible in the 1940's as long as it hadn't fallen into disuse like in the OTL.


The ancestor to the modern minigun was made in the 1860s. Richard Jordan Gatling replaced the hand cranked mechanism of a rifle-caliber Gatling gun with an electric motor, a relatively new invention at the time. Even after Gatling slowed down the mechanism, the new electric-powered Gatling gun had a theoretical rate of fire of 3,000 rounds per minute, roughly three times the rate of a typical modern, single-barreled machine gun. Gatling's electric-powered design received US Patent #502,185 on July 25, 1893.[1] Despite Gatling's improvements, the Gatling gun fell into disuse after cheaper, lighter-weight, recoil and gas operated machine guns were invented.

[Hobbes]

Wouldn't a belly turret (or two) be a good compromise? These can be used in the initial attack, then turned around to keep firing at the sub while the aircraft gets into a gunship-style firing circle.

[Weaver]

I do like the thought of a JU-52 gunship for the Germans especially in the med though. Maybe a version with a sideways firing 20mm and a 75mm recoilless Rifle to support fallschirmjagers in Crete?

Or, given the need for air-superiority, how about for partisan-bashing in Yugoslavia?

[tigercat]

40mm belly turret bwahahahah

[pyro-manic]

Some form of minigun is probably feasible in the 1940's as long as it hadn't fallen into disuse like in the OTL.


The ancestor to the modern minigun was made in the 1860s. Richard Jordan Gatling replaced the hand cranked mechanism of a rifle-caliber Gatling gun with an electric motor, a relatively new invention at the time. Even after Gatling slowed down the mechanism, the new electric-powered Gatling gun had a theoretical rate of fire of 3,000 rounds per minute, roughly three times the rate of a typical modern, single-barreled machine gun. Gatling's electric-powered design received US Patent #502,185 on July 25, 1893.[1] Despite Gatling's improvements, the Gatling gun fell into disuse after cheaper, lighter-weight, recoil and gas operated machine guns were invented.

An alternative could be Vickers K guns - they were .303, but had a very high rate of fire (~1200rpm I think). They were very effective for raiding in North Africa, being mounted in pairs on jeeps and trucks.