How would the RAF have employed the Century Series

[P1127]

One of the WhIF ideas I've had for a long time is re-equipping the RAF of the 50s/60s with the US Century series. Now I've probably seen all the various Century fighters done in RAF markings over the years, in some quite plausible senarios, but what I really wanted was a senario that enabled ALL of them to be serving in my alternate timeline.

So if we take the 1957 Defence Review going one step further and cancelling the Lightning and Javelin, and ordering the destruction of all tools, data etc as they placed thise faith in the new missile technology. 18 months down the line, we have the RAF facing an uncertain future, with no new aircraft on the horizon (save the TSR2) and the missile theory having been completely de-bunked, the UK decide to follow her NATO allies and 'Go American' and orders the following over the next 5-10 years.

F-100 - to replace the Hunters in RAFG and UK in the Day fighter/ground attack role (No 1 Squadron)

F-101B - Javelin AW fighter replacement in the UKADZ (151 Squadron out of Leuchars)

F-105 - Canberra replacement in the tactical strike role (16 Squadron)

The allocation of the F-102, F-104 and F-106 proved more troublesome, as all could operate in the same-ish roles, so I decided upon:

F-104 - QRA Interceptor for point defence in RAFG (92 Squadron) and the UK

F-102 - long range Interceptor for the UK initially to get up to speed, until supplanted by the F-106 to Near and Far East stations (mine will be 74 in Singapore)

F-106 - long range interceptor within the UKADZ (23 Squadron out of Leuchars)

Thoughts and suggestions for 'alternates' welcome!!

[Martin H]

looks about right to me.

All thou knowing their Air Ships. They would expect only one Interceptor to do every thing. And again knowing the idiots in charge, they would go for the cheapest option. So that would be the 104. With over load tanks and minimal missile fit to do the LR job.

[kitbasher]

F-100 - to replace the Hunters in RAFG and UK in the Day fighter/ground attack role Can see them now
F-101B - Javelin AW fighter replacement in the UKADZ Ditto - commonality with the RCAF/CAF and USAF
F-105 - Canberra replacement in the tactical strike role (16 Squadron) Not so sure.  I think the Canberra would have carried on until replaced by the Buccaneer
F-104 - QRA Interceptor for point defence in RAFG and the UK Maybe, given the NATO buy - economies of scale, etc.  More inclined to - wishfully - think F-106
F-102 - long range Interceptor for the UK initially to get up to speed, until supplanted by the F-106 to Near and Far East stations Don't think so - too many Sabres in the RAF carrying on.  The F-86K (RAG F-86D) would soldier on a bit longer until replaced by the F-106
F-106 - long range interceptor within the UKADZ Yes, I think so

[rickshaw]

I agree with Martin.  Too many types.   I could see the F-101 replacing both some Hunter and all the Javelin.   The F-105 would be an interesting replacement for the Canberra and dare I suggest the TSR2?   However, they might decided to go with the F-101, as it is already in service with TAC as a strike aircraft and doing that would allow commonality with the fighter squadrons.   F-104 might replace some Hunter squadrons and the Lightning in point-defence and tactical role.

[Weaver]

If we're starting from a "scorched earth" '57 white paper, then I think their Airships would do the following:

1. They'd skip the F-100 (who's accident rate was right in your face in 1957) entirely and join the F-104G project (whose accident rate wasn't yet apparent) to provide an affordable replacement for the Hunter.

2. I can't see them buying either the F-102 or F-106 because a) both programmes were expensive and troubled, b) they relied on the matching SAGE air defence system for their effectiveness, and c) a direct ground-controlled single-seater didn't match the RAF concept of operations. I think they'd go for the F-101B as a Javelin replacement, due to it's two seats, it's range and it's independent CONOPS. Of course, it would be better if they saw the merit in the Phantom and went for an early F-4C buy, but don't bet on it: their Airships' anti-naval-aircraft bias was strong in those days.

3. They'd definately go with the F-105 as a Canberra replacement, in fact I think this was actually offered by the US in real life as a cheaper alternative to TSR.2. They might well go for an all-two-seater F-105F force (RAF CONOPS again), and you could see them sponsoring development of a tac-recce version too.

So the RAF of the 1960s would consist of lots and lots of Starfighter fighter-bombers, with Voodoo all-weather fighters and Thunderchief strike aircraft. Only the latter pleases me: if we had to buy American, I'd prefer to see Crusaders or J79-Tigers instead of the F-104s and F-4Cs instead of the Voodoos.

[Mossie]

I've always been of the opinion that if Lightning had been canned in 1957 (Sandys was pretty gutted that he couldn't get rid of them) then we'd have bought F-104's.  I would like to have seen them armed with Red Top, but I'm pretty sure we'd have been pushed (led?) down the Sidewinder road earlier.  Like Harold, I personally prefer the idea of the F11F (but still think Starfighter would have been more likely), but with an Avon 200 shoe-horned in.

F-106, likewise, I think would be too expensive but would be cool to see in RAF markings intercepting Bear over the Shetlands.  That's been in my head recentley, okay, I know it's a poular low-number squadron but I can just see it in my mnids eye in 43 Sqn markings.

I'll throw in the F-107 as a cuckoo to the F-105.

Hell, why not go further???  F-108, the Rapier gets the go-ahead & their Airships order it in favour of F.155T.  F-109/Bell B-188A (if it would ever have received the F-109 designation) instead of P.1154 for RAFG.  Okay, getting out of true century series, but the F-110 (became F-4) entered service with the RAF, F-111 was ordered as a TSR.2 replacement but was cancelled.  There was an F-117 variant touted to the RAF, the F-117C, maybe dodging flak over Baghdad with it's US cousins?

[Radish]

Think they'd all look bostin' in RAF colours. Bring back the Empire, and station a multitude of aircraft all over the globe to keep the natives at bay, and frighten potential enemies.
Paid for by British Oil....found all over the globe/Empire.

Just ordered a B-58 Hustler for RAF service!

[upnorth]

The F-100 as a Hunter replacement I can easily see

Alternately, I could also see the F-104 taking the Hunter's place given that it was employed in tactical strike by several nations, including Canada and Germany.

We can't forget that the F-104 wheeling and dealing was a contoversial and bribe ridden proccess, perhaps the RAF might want to bypass it completely and hold out for the F-106

The F-105 is an easy one to see as filling the hole that the TSR-2 left and possibly negating the Buccaneer going into the RAF at all. It would be interesting to see the F-105 go through a re-engine programe and get rigged out for the anti-shipping role as well. Can you imagine a Thud toting Martels or Sea Eagles?

I would see the F-101 as the most likely gap filler if the Lightning got canned. Lock the rotating weapons palatte and put a couple of pylons on the wings and you could see them carrying up a quad of Red Tops or Firstreaks or a combination of the two missile types. I would also think that the RAF would most likely opt for single seat Voodoos. They always seemed to lean towards single seat combat types.

I could see the RAF with Single seat Voodoos of both the straight interceptor and the Tac Recce varieties

I can't see the RAF taking all the Century series, but perhaps  scenarios such as these:

Tactical strike:
F-100 working with F-105 in similar combination as Jaguar and Tornado
F-105 would also be used in Anti shipping and Wild Weasle type roles

Fighter interceptor:
Single seat F-101 Voodoos likely traded in or sold back for F-106s later on

Tactical Reece
RF-101C type aircraft

Alternately:

Tactical strike:
F-104 working with F-105.
F-105 still most likely candidate for anti shipping and Wild Weasle mods.

Fighter interceptor:
F-104 likely traded in or sold back for F-106s later on

Tactical Reece:
F-104 with Vinten camera pod, similar to Canadian version


Either way, I think the RAF would have held onto the F-101/F-104 in the fighter interceptor role until  the F-106 became available and bypass the F-102 completely.

[Weaver]

We can't forget that the F-104 wheeling and dealing was a contoversial and bribe ridden proccess, perhaps the RAF might want to bypass it completely and hold out for the F-106

Which is exactly why I could see the UK MOD getting into it up to it's burnt little fingers - it's the sort of cock-up that fits entirely with theirway of doing things....

The F-105 is an easy one to see as filling the hole that the TSR-2 left and possibly negating the Buccaneer going into the RAF at all. It would be interesting to see the F-105 go through a re-engine programe and get rigged out for the anti-shipping role as well. Can you imagine a Thud toting Martels or Sea Eagles?

Olympus would be good - maybe as a sop to Bristol Engines for losing the TSR.2?

TV Martel needed a back seater, which is maybe another reason why the RAF would want the -F over the -D.

I would see the F-101 as the most likely gap filler if the Lightning got canned. Lock the rotating weapons palatte and put a couple of pylons on the wings and you could see them carrying up a quad of Red Tops or Firstreaks or a combination of the two missile types. I would also think that the RAF would most likely opt for single seat Voodoos. They always seemed to lean towards single seat combat types.

The RAF have always leaned towards TWO seaters for the all-weather role. The Lightning was a Hunter replacement (in the fighter role), not a Javelin replacement, and the F-101 sucked big-time in any sort of dogfight (handling wise, it was effectively a giant Starfighter). I can easily see it sneaking up on Soviet bombers over the North Sea though.

Either way, I think the RAF would have held onto the F-101/F-104 in the fighter interceptor role until  the F-106 became available and bypass the F-102 completely.

The problem is that the F-106 line closed in 1961, so unless you ordered it damn quick after a 1958 decision, it'd be too late: not even the USAF could find the cash and political will to re-start the F-106 line. Also, if you'd ordered F-101Bs in 1958 for a 1960 in-service date, do you honestly see the UK Treasury stumping up for another all-weather interceptor before 1970 at the earliest?

I suspect the outcome would be either:

a) We're stuck with the F-101 into the 1980s, perhaps with joint UK/Canadian upgrades such as Avon 300s and better radar.

b) The RAF has a moment of clarity about 1959 and swaps the F-101 order for F-4Bs (same manufacturer, after all). Far better outcome, but definately whiff out there.....

[rickshaw]

b) The RAF has a moment of clarity about 1959 and swaps the F-101 order for F-4Bs (same manufacturer, after all). Far better outcome, but definately whiff out there.....

Surely not!  I can't see the RAF ordering a, shock, horror, Naval aircraft!  Surely you mean they'd order the F-110 Spectre, don't you? 

[PR19_Kit]

F-104 - QRA Interceptor for point defence in RAFG (92 Squadron) and the UK

Done that, see below......... 

It'd be even more interesting to reverse this idea and see what Brit types the US Forces would have ordered in a similar scenario, apart from the VERY few types they did order of course, being only the Canberra and Harrier, and then only if they built them. 

[Martin H]

We can't forget that the F-104 wheeling and dealing was a contoversial and bribe ridden proccess, perhaps the RAF might want to bypass it completely and hold out for the F-106

Which is exactly why I could see the UK MOD getting into it up to it's burnt little fingers - it's the sort of cock-up that fits entirely with their way of doing things....

when the bribery business finally broke. The Lockheed people who were hauled over the coals, said that the only reason the RAF didnt end up with F 104's was because they (Lockheed) couldnt afford to pay the amounts needed to buy off UK civil servants. None where willing to risk the chance of loosing their Knighthoods for the amounts Lockheed was offering.

The Uk honors system is one of the most effective and cheapest anti corruption operations ever created, as far as civil servants are concerned.

[NARSES2]

The Uk honors system is one of the most effective and cheapest anti corruption operations ever created, as far as civil servants are concerned.

Cash for honours Martin ?

[McColm]

What you have to remember as well is, during the fifties- sixties the RAF policy was sticking to twin engines. Until a reliable engine was built as with the Hunter.
The Spey could have made its way into the F-104, but as history has proved they tried to off load the F-16 and that didn't work or any of the Centuary Class of fighter/bombers.
Just a thought.

[Rheged]

The Uk honors system is one of the most effective and cheapest anti corruption operations ever created, as far as civil servants are concerned.

Cash for honours Martin ?

Cash for honours was "politicians"  who I'm sure, like the dung beetle and the tapeworm,  have their place in the ecological system.     Civil Servants are much more expensive.   Lockheed hadn't got the cash.