SAS whiff or not?

[jcf]

Ralph Bagnold (founder of the LRDG) used Ford Model Ts for his desert explorations in the 1930s,
so the physical layout of the Bentley chassis doesn't automatically preclude its use.
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2010/05/10/flivver-expedition-crosses-dreaded-desert/


BTW the Villiers supercharger was only an option on the Bentley 4.5 Litre car, rather than standard kit, and
was originally fitted over the objections of W.O. Bentley. However Woolf Barnato held the purse strings, so
Tim Birkin got his cars. The resulting and famous Birkin-Bentley racers also had a fabric over ash-frame body.

The AFV forum missing-lynx.com has a thread about the model in question:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/thread/1267295921/SAS+DesertBentley-

Upshot is it's a fantasy and 'borrowed' from a Japanese modeler's diorama.

BTW the book The Hunt for Zerzura: The Lost Oasis and the Desert War is a pretty good read about Bagnold
and other folks pre-war desert exploration and wartime exploits.
http://www.amazon.com/Hunt-Zerzura-Lost-Oasis-Desert/dp/product-description/0719561671

[Old Wombat]

I've done some interweb investigating & all evidence points to this being a WhIf, derived from a Japanese diorama - which at this time I am unable to find any proof/images of.

Also, there is no mention in the many "Paddy" Mayne articles (other than those relating directly to this model) that I have gone through which indicate that he, at any time, had a militarised Bentley.

That it is something which he may have done is debatable, he was a rebel who leaned towards violence & anti-authoritarianism but he did have a flair for irregular SAS operations.

On the whole, however, I would say it is a WhIf.



Oh, & Bren guns were quite regularly pintle-mounted (although the SAS only seem to have used them in Europe) as single & twin units, I've found ridiculous numbers of written references but only 2 excessively grainy photo's - which I wont post because they're as good as useless.

Vickers K guns were more popular because the drums carried more ammo &, as they were removed from decommissioned aircraft, were more readily spared for "special forces".

[NARSES2]

Oh, & Bren guns were quite regularly pintle-mounted (although the SAS only seem to have used them in Europe) as single & twin units, I've found ridiculous numbers of written references but only 2 excessively grainy photo's - which I wont post because they're as good as useless.

Vickers K guns were more popular because the drums carried more ammo &, as they were removed from decommissioned aircraft, were more readily spared for "special forces".

Didn't the BREN have a 200 round drum magazine intended for AA use ? I've seen a couple of photos but I've no idea as to how readly available it was

[rickshaw]

Didn't the BREN have a 200 round drum magazine intended for AA use ? I've seen a couple of photos but I've no idea as to how readly available it was

Yes, it did.  Never popular, there were two drum magazines - 100 and 200 rounds.  They were prone to causing stoppages apparently.

[Old Wombat]

Didn't know about the drum mag's for the Bren. Guess Bronco didn't get it wrong on their Humber Armoured car Mk IV, after all.

Did notice that some early LRDG & SAS vehicles had that old WW1 classic, the Lewis gun, fitted.

[Rheged]

Were  not General Allenby and T E Lawrence very appreciative of the Rolls Royce in the Palestinian Campaigns of the First World punch-up?

[Old Wombat]

Yes, but the WW1 RR armoured cars (based on 1914 Silver Ghost) had a better ground clearance than the (what 1937?) Bentley

[jcf]

... the (what 1937?) Bentley

1927, but basically a mildly updated 1919 design that was itself a 1914 concept.

The 4 and 1/2 litre car was a development of the 3 litre car and used the 10' 10" standard Long Chassis of that car,
and as was typical of the period, neither was what we would consider low to the ground.  


3-litre


4 1/2 litre Birkin replica (a common fate for original non-supercharged 4 1/2 litre cars was their being rebuilt to look like the Le Mans cars).

The Bentley chassis was very 'industrial' and would have lent itself to military developments.

[Hobbes]

I've also seen Bentleys participate in offroad events such as LE JOG, so terrain performance is probably not bad.

[beowulf]

It's a cliquey kind of site. Unless you are part of some group you can forget about people responding to your posts in any way. If you look around you will see it is always the same dozen or so members posting, it's the way they like it.

you are kidding, arnt you?......this place is so laid back im surprised it dosnt fall over!............i only post on 3 modelling forums, one ive only just joined (incredibly freindly buy riddled with JMNism....my mission to alter that )....the other is even more friendly than here!..........ive always found here to be open and welcoming and everyone is forthcoming with help and ideas...............i really cant abide big sites like britmodeller which i find to be very cliquey...it dosnt matter how good your skills are, its the idea or enthusiasm behind the build that people appreciate.....and long way it continue

even tho this is a diecast i think it is really cool....its not 'real' so what does it matter what the load out is?............ive just built the tamiya sas jeep as rw but this has got me thinking about what else could get modded in this vein

[Mossie]

Think Messmeister was talking about UAMF guys?  Going on my experience there I'd generally agree, although there were a few good'uns, Greger himself plus several who've found their way here..

[PR19_Kit]

I'm not surprised the 100 round Bren mag was disliked, it weighed a ton when full and was the very devil to position on the weapon too! If you got it slightly wrong one pair of lips wouldn't engage and you couldn't load any rounds or cock the weapon either. Then the mag would fall off, usually onto your right wrist. NO fun!

I never knew there was a 200 round version, that must have been even worse!

As for trying to load a 100 round mag while driving across the desert in a 4 1/2 Bentley, I think I'd rather not! 

[rickshaw]

Were  not General Allenby and T E Lawrence very appreciative of the Rolls Royce in the Palestinian Campaigns of the First World punch-up?

They may have been but remember, there are always limitations based upon terrain with any vehicle.  The deserts of the Middle-East are a varied lot.   Where the SAS and LRDG operated for the most part - in the far south of Libya - it was not known as the "great sand sea" for nothing.  It was what is known in geographical circles as an "Erg" desert - primarily made up of sand dunes which are often high but generally characterised by steep sides and made up of soft sand that is constantly being moved by the wind.  These are difficult to cross, even with four wheel drive vehicles today, let alone the ones used in WWII.   If you read any of the accounts of those units in North Africa they'll describe the difficulties in crossing the sand sea.   Palestine and much of Saudi Arabia and Jordan OTOH are stony deserts (as is the coast of North Africa).  Good terrain with patches of soft sand, good going for older style motor vehicles.

The picture Jon posted of the Model-T rather illustrates the problems in using such vehicles - narrow tyres with high ground pressure, lack of four-wheel drive meant that it was prone to bogging, as the Model-T has suffered.  You then have to basically unload as much as you can from the vehicle, if available use sand channels to provide purchase and perhaps even dig it out.   Long, laborious work.