De Havilland Mosquito

TsrJoe · February 24, 2010, 05:51:17 AM

i dont recall seeing anything re a possible Griffon fit for the Mosquito, but there were proposals to fit Napier Sabres as an upgraded bomber/pathfinder variant (as well as another proposal to fit DH. jet engines to the type)

cheers, joe

NARSES2 · February 24, 2010, 05:57:16 AM

The Mosquito follow on types DH 99 & 101 were schemed with the Griffon as an alternative of the Merlin but nothing came of them.

kitnut617 · February 25, 2010, 07:36:12 AM

Quote from: TsrJoe on February 24, 2010, 05:51:17 AM
but there were proposals to fit Napier Sabres as an upgraded bomber/pathfinder variant
cheers, joe

Something I've been looking into, only problem is to build one in 1/72 scale I need to find a 1/60 scale kit of a Mosquito to scale-o-rama.

kitnut617 · February 25, 2010, 07:58:10 AM

Hi Joe,

According to the Sharp / Bowyers book (supposedly the bible on Mosquitos), it says it would have been an exact scaled up version of the Mossie. The only dimensional information I have been able to find for it is in the same book (and I've looked everywhere), which says it would have had fifteen foot diameter contra-props. So I took a photo of the drawing in the book and scaled it until I got 15 feet across the prop tips with the resulting comparison I did with a regular Mossie. I noticed that the canopy of the Sabre Mosquito stays the same as a regular one though which matches almost perfectly in this photo.

There was mention of an upgraded Mossie with more powerful Merlins in the book, is that the one you're thinking of ?

Robert

EDIT: I overlaid a Tempest Mk.I fuselage conversion I have over the drawing and the cowling almost matches the nacelle perfectly too.
EDIT 2: Not doing to good here am I?. OK the Sharp / Bowyer book says it would have been a scaled-up Mosquito, but there's no dimensions given. The Putman book 'De Havilland Aircraft since 1909' says it would have been a scaled-up Mosquito with 15 foot contra-props (my copy it's on page 521 under DH.99/101). The side-view drawing, I got from Phil Butler. HTH's

sequoiaranger · February 25, 2010, 05:13:45 PM

>was there ever a proposal to fit the DH mosquito with RR griffon engines?<

There is in sequoiarangerland! One of these days---a "Sea Mossie", carrier-capable, twin-Griffon, 5-blade props, with Highball. Won't happen anytime soon, but it WILL happen!

kitnut617 · February 25, 2010, 06:49:46 PM

Quote from: NARSES2 on February 24, 2010, 05:57:16 AM
The Mosquito follow on types DH 99 & 101 were schemed with the Griffon as an alternative of the Merlin but nothing came of them.

Quote from: sequoiaranger on February 25, 2010, 05:13:45 PM
was there ever a proposal to fit the DH mosquito with RR griffon engines?

The two books I mentioned in my last post has the DH 99 and DH 101 as Sabre Mosquitos. The DH 99 designation got changed to DH 101 so is not really a different design. But De Havilland were told that the Sabre would not be available to them and to consider using the Griffon instead, De Havilland said that the Griffon wouldn't be powerful enough and within a month they dropped the whole project. So the Griffon was suggested for the scaled-up Mosquito, not a standard one.

NARSES2 · February 26, 2010, 01:18:03 AM

Thanks Kitnut. My reading was that DH had seriously looked at the Griffon after being told the Sabre wouldn't be available and had then come to the conclusion it wouldn't do the job. Didn't realise the decision was made so quickly. Thanks for clarifying that.

Chris

kitnut617 · February 26, 2010, 06:59:43 AM

Yes, the Sharp/Bowyer book says 'within a month' and the Putman book says 'dropped immediately' It suggests De Havilland just didn't want the Griffon. Interestingly, reading on through the chapter on the Sabre Mosquito in the Sharp/Bowyer book, it says the standard Mosquito with 2-Stage Merlins and a bulged bomb bay could do almost what the Sabre Mosquito was planned to do. So in the end that's the route that was taken.

rickshaw · February 26, 2010, 06:26:22 PM

Quote from: kitnut617 on February 25, 2010, 07:36:12 AM
Quote from: TsrJoe on February 24, 2010, 05:51:17 AM
but there were proposals to fit Napier Sabres as an upgraded bomber/pathfinder variant
cheers, joe

Something I've been looking into, only problem is to build one in 1/72 scale I need to find a 1/60 scale kit of a Mosquito to scale-o-rama.

How about 1/144? There are 1/100 and 1/120 scale Mosquitos around. You could claim they were 1/144 scale. Would that work?

Would the Sabre have had the chin radiator of the Typhoon/Tempest or enlarged the wing radiators of the original Mosquito design?

How about one powered by the Centaur?

kitnut617 · February 27, 2010, 08:08:57 AM

Quote from: rickshaw on February 26, 2010, 06:26:22 PM
How about 1/144? There are 1/100 and 1/120 scale Mosquitos around. You could claim they were 1/144 scale. Would that work?
Would the Sabre have had the chin radiator of the Typhoon/Tempest or enlarged the wing radiators of the original Mosquito design?
How about one powered by the Centaur?

Hi Rick, the way I'm reading it is that it would have been a straight scaled-up Mosquito, so radiators where the radiators are. Although only a few issues ago in an Air-Britain magazine, there was an article about experiments with chin radiators on Mosquitos and Welkins. The Mosquito had Lancaster type 'power-eggs' installed (to keep as much commonality as possible with other aircraft) and a fairing over the original radiator inlets and the testers were amazed to find out the performance was exactly the same. Only De Havilland didn't like it so the wing radiators stayed. I've not considered a Centaurus although with the larger nacelles it could work --- hmm, I'll have to think on that

I've thought about doing it in another scale but as 99% of my models (built and in the stash) are 1/72 so I want to do one in 1/72. I bought some nice plans last year which were originally drawn in 1/48 and has lots of section views, but where I got them from had scaled them up to 1/32. I'm going to scale it back down to 1/60 and build one from scratch starting with balsa and then if it goes good, I'll do it in styrene. I might even have a go at making a vacuform ----- we'll see

sequoiaranger · February 27, 2010, 10:23:04 AM

You might be able to kitbash-hack an "oversized" Mosquito in 1/72 by using a He-111 fuselage (cylindrical fuselage tapering to a point in the tail) and HP Hampden wings (same planform).

kitnut617 · February 28, 2010, 08:13:52 AM

Quote from: sequoiaranger on February 27, 2010, 10:23:04 AM
You might be able to kitbash-hack an "oversized" Mosquito in 1/72 by using a He-111 fuselage (cylindrical fuselage tapering to a point in the tail) and HP Hampden wings (same planform).

My apologies for not remembering, but was it you who sent me a He.111 fuselage for this purpose ? (I thought I had saved your emails too but I can't find them). I did some comparisons with the drawing I have and unfortunately it doesn't match very well, I think it would be easier to start from scratch than to do all the changes the fuselage needs. It was a good thought though.

BTW, the side profile I got from Jon way back on page 4 of this thread, not Phil Butler.

sequoiaranger · February 28, 2010, 08:56:00 AM

>My apologies for not remembering, but was it you who sent me a He.111 fuselage for this purpose ? (I thought I had saved your emails too but I can't find them).<

Looking back....Yeah, it was! The Hampden wing still would work, yes?

>I did some comparisons with the drawing I have and unfortunately it doesn't match very well, I think it would be easier to start from scratch than to do all the changes the fuselage needs. It was a good thought though.<

Another thought: if the He-111 fuselages are too big, after finishing my "Aichi 119" I now have some "extra" vac-form fuselages for the He-119. The He-119 is a "size smaller" than the He-111 but similarly shaped. There are no "protuberances" like the bottom gun tub, nor "openings" like the upper gun positions or windows to try to fill in or obscure. Lemme know.

kitnut617 · February 28, 2010, 10:29:06 AM

Quote from: sequoiaranger on February 28, 2010, 08:56:00 AM
Looking back....Yeah, it was! The Hampden wing still would work, yes?

Sorry about that, and yes the Hampden wing will work.

Quote from: sequoiaranger on February 28, 2010, 08:56:00 AM
Another thought: if the He-111 fuselages are too big, after finishing my "Aichi 119" I now have some "extra" vac-form fuselages for the He-119. The He-119 is a "size smaller" than the He-111 but similarly shaped. There are no "protuberances" like the bottom gun tub, nor "openings" like the upper gun positions or windows to try to fill in or obscure. Lemme know.

Well one thing these drawings I have show, is that the Mosquito fuselage is not actually round, it's 'egg' shape. Which is the main reason why the He.111 doesn't work, because that is almost round. It would be interesting to see what the shape of a section is of the He.119.

sequoiaranger · February 28, 2010, 11:01:22 AM

>the Mosquito fuselage is not actually round, it's 'egg' shape. Which is the main reason why the He.111 doesn't work, because that is almost round. It would be interesting to see what the shape of a section is of the He.119.<

The He-119 is roundish near the tail, but becomes a slightly "FLATTENED" oval (top-to-bottom) around the wings. I guess it does so to accommodate the widened engine and crew space on either side. Hmmm. Back to the drawing board.