Lockheed F-12B Escort Fighter for the B-70

[Devilfish]

Bought this at Newark Aeroboot a little while ago, for the princely sum of five of your new pounds....

Thought it would make an ideal escort fighter for the B-70 I'm building.  Yes, I know the F-108 was meant to be it's escort, but that was cancelled.... :hmmm:
So, here it is......
Box top....


Started with the cockpit, of course.  Not great, but I know very litle about these aircraft and a trawl of t'intaweb revealed few useful pics, so I just went with it....





Next, the missile bays....
Well, for starters, the "closed" one was completely missing, so, in my first real attempt, I scribed them on.  Pleased with the result!


The open one is exactly that...open to see the inside of the fuselage.  All it has is 4 missile hangers to hold the 2 AIM-47 Falcons.
I decided to cover it in.  I started by creating curved end caps, the idea being to simply sheet over the tops of the missile hangers....


Problem....as part of the "in service" look, I thought I'd get rid of the Falcons and use Phoenixes.  The theory being that the Phoenix was the Falcon's spiritual successor and so the higher powered motor and warhead of the Falcon is fitted to the Phoenix body and seeker.  However, the Phoenix has a larger wingspan than the Falcon, so, when the missiles are fitted, the fins protrude into the space where the bay roof wants to be....



So...At this point, I'm not sure whether to scratch the idea of Phoenixes or modify the roof?

[PR19_Kit]

Why not just invent the later model Phoenixes with the trimmed wings to fit into the already built F-12Bs? 

[rickshaw]

Its obvious that the use of the Phoenix at Mach 3+ speeds required that the fins be reduced in size, otherwise they would be ripped off when the missile was launched. 

Alternatively, you could make a folding fin version. 

[GTX]

F-12B works for me as an escort.  For a different sort of weapon, you could always have the Pye Wacket fitted to it as well (or perhaps a subscale variant)?

Regards,

Greg

[Supertom]

Folding fins!  Go for it!

[RPadavan2]

Historical fact:  The A-12 prototype was designed to be an escort for the B-70, and as a high speed interceptor of Soviet bombers.  It was discovered during testing that the plane would fly faster than the cannon rounds it fired, conceivably shooting itself down from cannon fire.  This and the lack of maneuverability in a dogfight (as well as some other facts I don't know about) lead to the cancellation of the fighter version and lead to the inception of the SR-71 recon plane. 

[PR19_Kit]

It was discovered during testing that the plane would fly faster than the cannon rounds it fired, conceivably shooting itself down from cannon fire. 

Really? Where was the gun fitted? I've never seen a photo of an A-12 or a YF-12 with a gun.

[Mr.Creak]

Historical fact:  The A-12 prototype was designed to be an escort for the B-70, and as a high speed interceptor of Soviet bombers.  It was discovered during testing that the plane would fly faster than the cannon rounds it fired, conceivably shooting itself down from cannon fire.

Apart from the fact that a cannon (if fitted: which was something never in the specs for the YF-12 that I've ever come across) would only be fired at sub/ transonic speeds (after all what's the point in approaching a Mach=0.9 target while doing Mach=3 at cannon ranges?) the other fact is that a cannon fired at Mach=3.0 aircraft would give the shells a speed of Mach=3.0 PLUS the muzzle velocity. (Of course you then have to make sure you don't dive into the shells' trajectory as they lose velocity and drop...)

[GTX]

Proposed gun option shown here:



I agree with Mr Creak re gun use.

Regards,

Greg

[Mr.Creak]

(if fitted: which was something never in the specs for the YF-12 that I've ever come across)

Where's the "egg on my face" smiley?
Dang, learn something new every day.

[PR19_Kit]

Is that the gun in the port forward bay? Presumably they'd have to lower it into the airstream to fire it? Sounds complicated....

Didn't an F-8 do that 'shooting itself down' trick once? I recall one fired some rounds in a descent, the rounds slowed down and the F-8 didn't, it caught them up and swallowed them, goodbye engine!

[GTX]

(if fitted: which was something never in the specs for the YF-12 that I've ever come across)

Where's the "egg on my face" smiley?
Dang, learn something new every day.

Here you go 




Regards,

Greg

[GTX]

Is that the gun in the port forward bay? Presumably they'd have to lower it into the airstream to fire it? Sounds complicated....

Yep, that's the location.  I don't think it was planned to be lowered though - was a fixed mount, maybe with a door that would open prior to firing.  I'm sure Jon will correct me soon though .

Didn't an F-8 do that 'shooting itself down' trick once? I recall one fired some rounds in a descent, the rounds slowed down and the F-8 didn't, it caught them up and swallowed them, goodbye engine!

That was a special circumstance in relation to the profile flown IIRC.  Could happen to any aircraft just about.

Regards,

Greg

[RPadavan2]

Very interesting!  I heard the potential shoot down story from a retired SR-71 crew chief standing outside the perimeter fence at the AMARC (USAF boneyard) facility.  He was admiring the D-12 drones that were stored there and not "claimed" by the USAF (story was the D-12s were not part of the official USAF inventory and never used by the USAF).  Guess I need that egg/face smiley too!

[Mr.Creak]

Is that the gun in the port forward bay? Presumably they'd have to lower it into the airstream to fire it? Sounds complicated....

Depending on the curvature of the fuselage/ chine at the point of the muzzle (in 3D don't forget) it may well be that LOS is clear for firing.

Didn't an F-8 do that 'shooting itself down' trick once? I recall one fired some rounds in a descent, the rounds slowed down and the F-8 didn't, it caught them up and swallowed them, goodbye engine!

I vaguely remember something about an aircraft (F-11 Tiger IIRC) running into its own rounds, and another story about one sucking in spent cartridge cases.
Quick Google, however, reveals a number of self-inflicted kills:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/105693/
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-13758.html
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-55169.html

And, many many years ago, Brab (Roy Braybrook) in his Personal Column in Air International* retold a story about a certain Latin American air force** giving an anti-shipping firepower demonstration and losing a few aircraft to ricochets from the sea. The demo ended, apparently, with a decisive victory for the wooden floating targets...

* I'm still highly miffed that he stopped writing those.
** This was around the time of kick-off for the Falklands War, so even though the country wasn't named the inference was obvious.