F-86 as Air to Surface/Ship missile

[MAD]

   

F-86 as Air to Surface/Ship missile

I like it!!!

I think the F-86 would make a good and cost effective cruise missile (especially when used against North Vietnamese fixed targets!!)

Another thought could be a pilot-less cruise missile adaption of the McDonnell XF-85 Goblin!
After all much of the R&D had already been done (and planned!) for its deployment by Boeing B-29 (and I dare say B-50's) and the Convair B-36!! Just a thought 

M.A.D

[rallymodeller]

   

F-86 as Air to Surface/Ship missile

I like it!!!

I think the F-86 would make a good and cost effective cruise missile (especially when used against North Vietnamese fixed targets!!)

Another thought could be a pilot-less cruise missile adaption of the McDonnell XF-85 Goblin!
After all much of the R&D had already been done (and planned!) for its deployment by Boeing B-29 (and I dare say B-50's) and the Convair B-36!! Just a thought 

M.A.D

Not a bad thought. The goblin had a short range but removing the cockpit and such could improve that somewhat; making the "trapeze" a one-way device (no need to hook up) would simplify that as well.

Continuing that thought, the F-84F would be better than the Sabre as an air-launched missile variant as all the development work for carrying one on a B-36 had already been done as well (with an F-84C and the RF-84K).

This all isn't really that far out; the Soviets had a cruise missile (the Kh-20/AS-3 Kipper) was developed by MiG using MiG-17 technology -- it was basically a pilotless Fresco.

[rickshaw]

I think by far the biggest problem associated with these sorts of adaptation is that of guidance.  With 1950s technology how do you guide a missile accurately to fully exploit the needed range?  The early Soviet efforts left a great deal to be desired AIUI.  Hitting "pin point" targets might be wishful thinking.  As city busters they have possibilities but even then what would the CEP be over a range of several hundreds, let alone thousands of miles?

[rallymodeller]

Well, the Kipper was not designed to hit moving targets; it was more for hitting harbours and such. It had some wacky guidance system that was a bizarre combination of beam-riding with semi-active terminal homing.

[Rheged]

<...> So my thoughts were to blank off the cockpit area and make it into something akin to the Soviet As-1 Kennel. <...>

Great idea! 

This sounds good to me!   Could the same be done with a swarm of redundant Gnats?

[andyreb3]

Carrier based zel setup with a nuke warhead set-up with a willy fud or early hawkeye control craft.

[philp]

I think this is a good idea for the end of the Sabre service life.  This would put it in later 60's tech so use against bridges in Vietnam may be a possibility.

Some other schemes to consider are some of the Firebee options (especially with a sharkmouth) or even one of the QF-86 schemes.

[MAD]

<...> So my thoughts were to blank off the cockpit area and make it into something akin to the Soviet As-1 Kennel. <...>

Great idea! 

This sounds good to me!   Could the same be done with a swarm of redundant Gnats?

Wasn't there a proposed Vulcan variant proposed to carry 3 x Gnat's? I think the Vulcan was to be a 'mother-ship', which launched its Gnat's, which intern penetrated the enemy defences to drop their nuclear payload!
So once again, I think the whole study of a 'parasite' Gnat was already studied! So your proposal of a one-way 'stand-off' Gnat missile would be made even easier, with no need or complication to retrieve!

I like it!!!!

M.A.D   

[NARSES2]

This sounds good to me!   Could the same be done with a swarm of redundant Gnats?

Wasn't there a proposed Vulcan variant proposed to carry 3 x Gnat's? I think the Vulcan was to be a 'mother-ship', which launched its Gnat's, which intern penetrated the enemy defences to drop their nuclear payload!
So once again, I think the whole study of a 'parasite' Gnat was already studied! So your proposal of a one-way 'stand-off' Gnat missile would be made even easier, with no need or complication to retrieve!

I like it!!!!

M.A.D   

Indeed there was. Although where the Gnat pilots were supposed to fly to is beyond me as it was the Gnat  Still it's along the lines of the young Vulcan pilot who was advised by his CO that if the balloon ever did go up he be better off dropping his weapons and then flying East until fuel ran out, then settling down with a large Mongolian women as ther'd be now't at home to go back to. That tale was in a Channel 4 documentary on Britain's 50/60's weapons development. It's repeated quite often (a 3 part series) very good and well worth the watch. Only the necessary historical politics with no views coloured by hindsite.

[Mossie]

F-86 missile sounds good.  If guidance is a problem use the fifties doctrine of if in doubt, nuke the fecker!

Here's the Gnat proposal:

[andyreb3]

Try a carrier or battleship or destroyer outfitted with Navy Furies (Navy Sabres), the control craft is a Willy Fudd, or Early Hawkeye.