Back-to-front layout idea, for twin tailers.

McColm · August 16, 2011, 12:20:15 AM

Hi,
What if the Wright brothers and all those who came after them adopted their layout of how an bomber aircraft should look like?
Therefore any twin tailed aircaft could use this layout. Take a bog standard Lancaster build the tail section and instead of gluing it at the rear glue it to the front. Beefing up the fire power to have tear-drop side turrets, so you don't shoot yourself down in a dog-fight.
The Shackleton or Liberator are two other posibilities. Or even a B-17.
Then there is the A-10, the tail section being moved to just behind the cockpit, otherwise the side-ways vision gets blocked.
I think the Miles Aircraft Limited tried this concept and also Rutand/Space Composites.

Mossie · August 16, 2011, 02:59:18 AM

Basically a canard layout? There were a few flirtations with the layout (known as 'tail-first' then) beore & during World War II, Focke Ente & the Miles M.35 & M.39 you alluded to coming to mind. The monster that was the Vickers C would have had a tail first layout.

PR19_Kit · August 16, 2011, 03:58:14 AM

Quote from: Mossie on August 16, 2011, 02:59:18 AM
The monster that was the Vickers C would have had a tail first layout.

Oh yes, that's the thing that's on the front of one of the Brit Secret Projects books, isn't it?

Did anyone here ever model that, it'd be truly awesome!

kitnut617 · August 16, 2011, 05:12:00 AM

Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 16, 2011, 03:58:14 AM
Quote from: Mossie on August 16, 2011, 02:59:18 AM
The monster that was the Vickers C would have had a tail first layout.

Oh yes, that's the thing that's on the front of one of the Brit Secret Projects books, isn't it?

Did anyone here ever model that, it'd be truly awesome!

"I have a cunning plan"

PR19_Kit · August 16, 2011, 05:35:20 AM

Quote from: kitnut617 on August 16, 2011, 05:12:00 AM
"I have a cunning plan"

Looking forward to THAT then!

Mossie · August 16, 2011, 05:54:39 AM

Excellent! Now get to work!

kitnut617 · August 16, 2011, 06:01:16 AM

I've a couple of projects to finish first then I'll start collecting the bits I'll need for it. Some quick scaling of a drawing sent to me by Tony Buttler, reveals the fuselage is not unlike a B-52's in section and size, and that will be my starting point.

That and a Lincoln nose and a Shackleton windshield and a pair of Wellington wings for the canard should get me well on my way. I've also discovered that the Valiant B.2 u/c looks remarkably like those that the version with the four 4-wheel bogies has as u/c.

McColm · August 16, 2011, 11:53:41 AM

Wow,
One person's idea can have so many parameters to it.

Mossie · August 16, 2011, 02:34:04 PM

You can go a bit further. The Miles aircraft & the Vickers C are strictly speaking tandem wing aircraft, where the tail or canard surface generates significant lift & effectively becomes a second wing. You can vary the size of the wing so you could have two wings the same size. Aircraft like the Arsenal Delanne 10 did this, although the controls were more conventional with the pitch control surfaces to the rear, there's no reason why you couldn't swap them over. Westland had several designs along these lines including bombers.

Somebody took the B-17 idea and ran with it, the pics used to be on the site but have gone now. A guy called Frank White thought, what if Burt Rutan had designed the B-17 & decided to build it. You can find it on Swanny's site, scroll down to the second from bottom model on the link:
http://www.swannysmodels.com/B17G.html

kitnut617 · August 16, 2011, 02:57:55 PM

Well Jon (joncarrfarrelly) has a B-36 switched around like that in the pic he has for his avatar

ChrisF · August 16, 2011, 03:02:44 PM

@Kitnut... Do you need a B52 or do you have one already ?

kitnut617 · August 16, 2011, 03:10:00 PM

Quote from: ChrisF on August 16, 2011, 03:02:44 PM
@Kitnut... Do you need a B52 or do you have one already ?

Weeeellll !! I've got eight 1/72 scale ones in the stash (one's built) with the plan to build one of each version that is visibly different and I had thought of using one of them as a donor for the Vickers Type C, but if you have a scrapper that I could maybe buy the fuselage from you that would be great. 1/72 though ---

jcf · August 16, 2011, 03:11:58 PM

Quote from: kitnut617 on August 16, 2011, 02:57:55 PM
Well Jon (joncarrfarrelly) has a B-36 switched around like that in the pic he has for his avatar

Indeed I do,and I've actually marked up the fuselage of a Hobbycraft 1/144 B-36 for the surgery.
The backstory will also explain the upside-down wing of the Hobbycraft kit.

kitnut617 · August 16, 2011, 03:17:17 PM

Can't wait to see how it comes out Jon

McColm · August 16, 2011, 11:59:32 PM

Blimey!!
Thanks Mossie.
Good luck on your builds.
I think my former Heller 1/72 E-3A is in for a radical redesign, starting with forward swept wings. Wing section from an E-2C and the tail from the same kit/ or Nimrod tail section. CFM engines, P-3 Orion weapons bay-Eduard (tried using the Atlantique weapons bay but it's not deep enough), under wing pylons (harpoon and air-to-air), infra-red from the Nimrod kit, along with a M.A.D. boom. Nose cone from a EC-135N. Sonobuoy launcher's from either the P-3 or Atlantique. Nimrod weapons bay doors in open position. As you can't see much through the clear cockpit canopy, no detail in the cockpit. In-flight refueling probe off the C-135FR.
V-tail so the M.A.D. boom fits. Got a suitable stand. Good to go. (I'll not to keep adding bits to it, as with my Nimrod AEW & Refueling Tanker- a work in progress!)