Harrier and Sea Harrier

[Weaver]

The Kestrel had the intakes with inflatable rubber lips.

My brain had trouble sorting that out because it went wa-ay off in the wrong direction!

LOL.

On the P.1127 they found that they needed a fat, rounded intake lip whilst hovering. However for efficient forward flight at high speeds, they'd need a thin intake lip. On later P.1127s and early Kestrels, they attempted to solve this by using a rubber intake lip cover that could be inflated whilst hovering, then have the collagen air pumped out after it'd transitioned to forward flight. The problem was that, predictably, the rubber didn't last long, suffering repeated punctures. Eventually a compromise semi-rounded metal lip was adopted for the Kestrel, and this is what you see on the surviving aircraft today. The Harrier adopted a totally different intake with a thin-ish lip and the auxiliary blow-in doors that have befuddled kit manufacturers and modellers ever since.

Early Kestrel in flight with the rubber lips (black bits) deflated:



Late P.1127 hovering with the rubber lips inflated:



The Airfix P.1127 is a VERY early version with small diameter sharp fixed intakes and the delta wing. Those intakes won't do for anything past the Pegasus Mk.III, which was low-powered enough to make the P.1127 useless for any practical task.


Thread here on kitbashing a modern Airfix Harrier and a P.1127 to get a Kestrel. It's a LOT of work:
https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235065749-hawker-siddeley-kestrel-fga1-in-172/

[zenrat]

...Thread here on kitbashing a modern Airfix Harrier and a P.1127 to get a Kestrel. It's a LOT of work:
https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235065749-hawker-siddeley-kestrel-fga1-in-172/

Particularly when most people will look at it and go "uhh, Harrier."

[Doug K]

...Thread here on kitbashing a modern Airfix Harrier and a P.1127 to get a Kestrel. It's a LOT of work:
https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235065749-hawker-siddeley-kestrel-fga1-in-172/

Particularly when most people will look at it and go "uhh, Harrier."

I built the P1127 as a kid back in the '70s, later I bought the same kit for a fortune to add one to my later collection. They are so different from a Kestrel or Harrier GR1.

[PR19_Kit]

That does look like a MAJOR job. But it was well done.

The video in the thread is WELL worth looking at if you're into VSTOL stuff, and it's well produced too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWtPv3UocT0&t=535s

[jcf]

Even I recognize that necessity, Kit.  What the hell were they smoking when they decided to have wings the same size as the horizontal stabs?

Exactly!

Maybe they figured that the Pegasus would be in lift mode almost the entire time? In which  case they forgot the IFR probe, or probeS even!

The Pegasus wouldn't be in lift mode the entire time as it's likely that the intent was that it would get the
majority of its aerodynamic lift in forward flight from the fuselage. The goal being drag reduction and an
increase in speed for a given amount of thrust. Which fits in with period research into aerodynes etc.

Not much sense for a manned aircraft, but it would be intriguing as a cruise missile. 

[zenrat]

...Thread here on kitbashing a modern Airfix Harrier and a P.1127 to get a Kestrel. It's a LOT of work:
https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235065749-hawker-siddeley-kestrel-fga1-in-172/

Particularly when most people will look at it and go "uhh, Harrier."

I built the P1127 as a kid back in the '70s, later I bought the same kit for a fortune to add one to my later collection. They are so different from a Kestrel or Harrier GR1.

If you know what you are looking at, sure.  But otherwise they all look like "Harriers".
Same with a lot of subjects but take Spitfires for example.  Most people can pick out a Spitfire, but can they then tell you what mark it is?  Lee can whereas I would have a go and get it wrong.  But then I can tell a '68 from a '69 from a '70 Dodge Charger.

[Weaver]

...Thread here on kitbashing a modern Airfix Harrier and a P.1127 to get a Kestrel. It's a LOT of work:
https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235065749-hawker-siddeley-kestrel-fga1-in-172/

Particularly when most people will look at it and go "uhh, Harrier."

I built the P1127 as a kid back in the '70s, later I bought the same kit for a fortune to add one to my later collection. They are so different from a Kestrel or Harrier GR1.

If you know what you are looking at, sure.  But otherwise they all look like "Harriers".
Same with a lot of subjects but take Spitfires for example.  Most people can pick out a Spitfire, but can they then tell you what mark it is?  Lee can whereas I would have a go and get it wrong.  But then I can tell a '68 from a '69 from a '70 Dodge Charger.

Lee can tell you which fitter rivetted which warning plate in the cockpit on that individual aircraft and what he had on his sandwiches for lunch afterwards...

[Weaver]

Okay, so ideas for colour schemes. I can't see a way clear to an operational P.1127 prototype for the life of me (without whiffing the basic physics, anyway) so these are mainly colour scheme options.

More international and/or sooner:
The Kestrel was evaluated by a three-nation team with three-nation markings (USA, UK & FRG), so how about the other nations getting involved at an earlier stage? The P.1127 was funded from the start with American MWDF money intended for NATO allies' projects, so morphing it into a joint NATO programme doesn't seem that much of a stretch. Put mixed US/UK/FRG marking on it, or come up with an earlier version of the Kestrel markings. You might also include Italy (they did quite a few V/STOL studies in the 1960s too) and possibly The Netherlands, since Fokker would probably want in on any joint programme.

For a wilder option, you could say that Sweden and/or Switzerland (both with aircraft industries and both with an interest in dispersed/survivable ops) bought/borrowed "spare" P.1127 prototypes to eveluate the concept, once Hawker moved on to the Kestrel.

Whoever's flying them, if they were true early P.1127s then the scheme would probably be NMF+roundels in order to save weight (paint can add up to a significant weight on a jet fighter).


Raspberry Ripple:
Maybe RAE Boscombe Down got a P.1127 to do further research with and painted it up in their colours. Technically, it might be a hybrid with a mix of prototype, production and experimental features (coincidentally the ones that are easy to kitbash...   )


Fanta Can:
Same principle as above, but it's the Aussies who take an interest.

[zenrat]

Shipping a couple of Kestrels down here for evaluation by the ARDU (RAAF Aircraft Research and Development Unit) would have allowed them to be trialled in a wide range of conditions from hot & humid to dry & dusty and also in the snow (although not in real serious below zero F snow).   All without leaving the country.

You now got me thinking what a Fanta Can Harrier would look like.

[NARSES2]

You might also include Italy (they did quite a few V/STOL studies in the 1060s too)

Ah so the Norman conquest of southern Italy ?    Sorry I'll put myself in The Book 

[Weaver]

You might also include Italy (they did quite a few V/STOL studies in the 1060s too)

Ah so the Norman conquest of southern Italy ?    Sorry I'll put myself in The Book 

Good spot - post corrected. 

VTOL studies in 1060 probably involved see-saws, tall towers and big rocks...

[NARSES2]

  

[PR19_Kit]

Ah so the Norman conquest of southern Italy ?   

Just the sort of version that Radish would have built 

[jcf]

Futzing about with my notion of the Bristol 217 as a minimal support, concealable cruise missile system.
Something similar with the P.1127 could be amusing.

You cannot view this attachment.

[Weaver]

Harrier GR.3 engine change in the forest in the 1980s.

Nightmare for the fitters, diorama opportunity for the modellers?

Posted on Twitter ("X" ) by @RealAirPower1 here: https://x.com/RealAirPower1/status/1825882880460935426



Note that the truck on the left, almost out of shot, is probably a crane truck waiting to lift the wing off: you can see one of it's outrigger jacks in the left foreground.