Harrier and Sea Harrier

[rickshaw]

Just spotted this over on secret projects.  Anybody dare to have a go at scratch building it?

[Jschmus]

I like the longer, skinnier Harrier with twin fins, but what's with the nose section sticking out of the tail?

[Gondor]

One area that would have been interesting for the harrier would have been if the UK had replaced he Sea Harrier FRS1 with a version of the Harrier II equipped like te AV8+ but with Blue vixen radar.

Like this ?









I realise that this part of the thread is fairly old, but I only just read the quote.

Gondor

[kitnut617]

Well my idea is to do a 'Phoenix' type missile system but using the 'Martel' frame.

Here's my Sea Harrier Mk.13 project

[dy031101]

Just spotted this over on secret projects.

I like the longer, skinnier Harrier with twin fins, but what's with the nose section sticking out of the tail?

Tail Gunner.

I kid you not!

I see the tail gunner, but where's the tail gun?

Also, what is that thing on the underside of the fuselage between engine intake and the first pair of engine nozzles?

[sandiego89]

 DY- Re: Also, what is that thing on the underside of the fuselage between engine intake and the first pair of engine nozzles?

I think that may be the aden gun pod.  Port and starboard under the fuselage.  Looks thrust challenged, even with a super Pegasus.

 

[dy031101]

I think that may be the aden gun pod.

If it was, would there have been any need for the guns in the nose?

It would have pleased my asthetical sense to move the guns from the nose to external pods and therefore to allow for a shorter nose (both aspects à la 1st Gen. Harriers or even AV-8B) though.  

[Mossie]

Too short for ADEN pods, they look like pylons to me?  Wouldn't have though it was the ideal location for either with potential airflow disruption into the auxillary intakes & hot gas ingestion from the gun & missiles.

[The Wooksta!]

Has anyone thought of fitting the Harrier T10 with the wing of a Sea Harrier?  I just like the idea of one in a gloss blue/white scheme as an updated "Admiral's Barge" or perhaps a more pokey COD aircraft!

Alternately, a Sea Harrier with a Harrier wing as escorts for the normal strike aircraft?  They'd be useful at forward bases whereby they could literally pop up and take out any attackers.

[Hobbes]

a Sea Harrier with a Harrier wing as escorts for the normal strike aircraft

Wasn't the tradeoff that the Sea Harrier wing had less payload but more speed? I'd think a bit of extra speed would be useful for an anti-air Harrier.
Still, the idea of a land-based AA Harrier is interesting. FA2 with wraparound camo?

[The Wooksta!]

Possibly not, I think wraparound was being phased out as the FA2s were coming in, but then again, if they're based in the forests of Germany, I think a two colour green wraparound might be a good idea.  A Luftwaffe example?  They were part of the initial trial batch of P1127s and Kestrels...

[dy031101]

Wouldn't have though it was the ideal location for either with potential airflow disruption into the auxillary intakes & hot gas ingestion from the gun & missiles.

Should be moved a bit further back, right?

(But then we come to ground clearance problem; then again I don't think the current position, if it represents a pylon (or pylons), has enough clearance for tactical AS missiles anyway.)

[Mossie]

If they're pylons, I'd guess they're probably for self defence AAM's.

There's another possibility, that they could be lift improvement devices.  The designers quickly realised that the Aden pods on the Harrier improved lift close to the ground by trapping some of the air when vectoring.  In the Harrier II they went further, adding the cross-dam, AV-8B's adding strakes to their guns (the Aden on the GR.5/7 was deeper & didn't need it) & they carry large strakes in place of the guns when they are not fitted.

[kitnut617]

If they're pylons, I'd guess they're probably for self defence AAM's.

They look like they're in the same position as they are on the P-1154

There's another possibility, that they could be lift improvement devices.  The designers quickly realised that the Aden pods on the Harrier improved lift close to the ground by trapping some of the air when vectoring. In the Harrier II they went further, adding the cross-dam, AV-8B's adding strakes to their guns

Actually first done on AV-8C's (converted AV-8A's)

[Weaver]

a Sea Harrier with a Harrier wing as escorts for the normal strike aircraft

Wasn't the tradeoff that the Sea Harrier wing had less payload but more speed? I'd think a bit of extra speed would be useful for an anti-air Harrier.
Still, the idea of a land-based AA Harrier is interesting. FA2 with wraparound camo?

The AV-8B wing knocks about 50kts off top speed but has roughly double the fuel capacity and has a higher lift/drag ratio at cruise speeds. It's therefore ideal for a bomb truck, but not so good for a fighter, given that the Harrier is seriously slow for a fighter anyway.

The BAE-designed Big Wing was metal rather than CFC and had a thinner section than McDD's supercritical wing. It preserved maximum speed but was heavier and had less fuel capacity due to being thinner. It would therefore have been ideal for a Harrier fighter, and had the additional advantage that it was designed for retrofit to GR.3/FRS.1 airframes whereas the McDD wing was for new-build only.