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A Question of possibilty

Started by Fulcrum, August 26, 2011, 11:45:35 PM

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Fulcrum

I have a interesting idea of a political scenario:

A governor of a state becomes massively disliked through some very unpopular policies they have made(like re-introducing the death penatly, etc.)

Next election comes around, they end up winning through obivous indications of fraud & gerrymandering.

Here's my question: is it possible for that state's national guard(both army & air) & state defense forces to overthrow that state's governor by a military coup d'etat

How would the federal gov't react to this situation? Can they really send troops without inflaming any possible seperatist tensions with the state that is affected?

(This could be a whif-scenario that could involve my fictional country, which is located right next door to the U.S.)
(I don't want this to get personal/political)
Fulcrums Forever!!!
Master Assembler

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Fulcrum

Fulcrums Forever!!!
Master Assembler

rallymodeller

It comes down to how long it'd be until Posse Comitatus, the law that forbids the federal US military from unilaterally acting on US soil, is suspended. The Federal Military is actually barred from acting under it's own command within the US because of Posse Comitatus. It can provide support, but only under the command of civil authorities. So unless Posse Comitatus is suspended by the President under a War Measures-like Emergency Act (which would be likely), Federal troops aren't getting involved except to lock down their own bases. This goes double for any state with nukes; then protecting the nuclear bases (say, any strategic bomber base like Barksdale, Minot or Whiteman) becomes a federal matter.

In your scenario, it's actually more likely that elements of the State Police would be the ones deposing the Governor, as the National Guard is in a bit of a precarious situation. First off, the National Guard's chain of command goes through the Governor's office. If the Governor was that corrupt, guaranteed his people would be in the Guard as well. Further, if the Guard were to be part of it, the Federal Government could "federalize" the state's National Guard elements and then the NG would be in real trouble, as the moment they are federalized (i.e. in national as opposed to state service) they are acting in violation of Posse Comitatus, and that there is treason and subject to the UCMJ. The State Police, however, are free to act as they see fit within the state's constitution with basically only the Attorney General's office to answer to. They are also pretty well armed these days, with Homeland Security money going out all over the place. Most State Police nowadays have at least some armoured vehicles at their disposal. 

But if your evil Governor had his hands in both the Guard and State Police, there is a "safe" option for the Feds: the FBI. State elections are overseen by the same body that looks after national elections, the FEC. If the FEC saw massive corruption in a state election, they have the power to declare the election null and void and can request federal charges against those in violation of FEC rules. Thus the FBI moves in with arrest warrants, along with whatever other federal law enforcement agencies are necessary (ATF, Federal Marshals Service, US Treasury Department/Secret Service, Homeland Security, and even Guard units from other states), with the Federal military in a supporting role. If you want to see how this sort of thing actually works, research the Waco incident and the Texas National Guard's part (M728 CEVs were used to breach the Davidian compound). The FBI has some badass paramilitary troops of their own, and with the support of other Homeland Security groups and out-of-state Guard elements, could take on any state's Guard.

--Jeremy

Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...


More into Flight Sim reskinning these days, but still what-iffing... Leading Edge 3D

RPadavan2

If there is evidence of the corruption on the part of the governor, the US Attorney General (federal prosecutor) would step in and establish a Special Prosecutor within the state, or even handle the case at the federal level.  And a special election would be held with federal government monitoring.  In the most extreme case, the President could declare a limited Martial Law within the state and put the National Guard on orders (federalizing them), at which point the military could supplement the civilian police forces.  And if all the legal routes fail, the citizens may take matters in their own hands in the form of any firearms they happen to own, and any lawsuits they can generate.

Fulcrum

Intersting, thanks for sharing some wisdom regarding this matter.

Here's another possible twist: If the governor refuses to obey the laws & regulations with the electoral rules & the federal government then decides to indict them, but the governor reacts by threating a UDI(unlaterial declaration of independence) of their state(with the reemergence of the issue regarding state's rights with the federal gov't).

Can pro-federal elements in the national guard, state defense forces & state police get any possible go-ahead & support from the federal gov't, FBI, FEC & the Department of Defense in a attempt to turf out the governor & put them under arrest without any legal consquences regarding involvement of armed state forces in a coup?
Fulcrums Forever!!!
Master Assembler

rallymodeller

Short answer: yes. The FBI would by necessity be involved (Posse Comitatus again), but that scenario is perfectly plausible.
--Jeremy

Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...


More into Flight Sim reskinning these days, but still what-iffing... Leading Edge 3D