Monitors

[pyro-manic]

They were supposed to be "light battlecruisers", or "large light cruisers" as they were officially termed. Basically capital ship guns on a cruiser hull. And yes, definitely not monitors. They're probably closer to the later German Panzerschiffs (pocket battleships) than anything else.

[Doc Yo]

Yup when does a Monitor become a Coastal Battleship or even a Pocket Battleship ?

mused NARSES2

Usually, but not aways, its the second turret.*  But any discussion of the class is going to involve a lot of 'Except for...' and
'unless...' . For the US Navy, during their period of most active employment (our Civil War ) they were the equivalent of a
 conventional fleet-intended for offensive operations against the enemy navy. Only the terrain, riverine and costal areas,
differed, as the only Confederate ships on the High Seas were the commerce raiders, and even the scattering of sea-going
US ironclads ( New Ironsides and, perhaps, Galena ) weren't nearly fast enough to catch them. They also saw
considerable employment in South America, mainly in Riverine actions during the war of the Triple alliance.  The French
clearly liked the idea, as they actively built Monitors for close to a generation after 1861, but they began going to more sea-worthy
'Coast Defence' ships. ( Anybody notice that "Littoral Combat" is pretty much the same thing? )

The real difference, though,
is freeboard-the height of the main deck above the water. In the case of some US monitors, this could be measured in inches,
and was seldom more than six feet. With less mass above water, less flotation was needed below, so Monitors were consequently
shallower in draft than a ship of similar dimensions intended for the High seas. The Monitor thus becomes a harder, smaller target,
but it carries a price. In anything other than a calm sea, the Monitor is at far greater risk-not only are all its normal holes ( Stacks, ventilators,
hatches ) closer to the water, any wave that breaks over a monitor has almost nowhere else to go but down into the hull, and as
already observed, there's less of that to fill up. A proper ship, with higher freeboard, may ship some water in a heavy sea, but there
is all that top work for it to flow over, and back out of, before it gets down to sea level. Gunnery also suffers. With a bit more height,
the guns are less affected by the weather, whereas the Monitor, in even moderately heavy seas, finds its aim frequently blocked by the
waves themselves.  Monitors could, and did, cross Oceans. A couple of double- turret monitors crossed the Atlantic ( One appears to
have been the Miantonomoh-I had thought it was the Monadnock, but she seems to have made an extended cruise in South American
waters ) in the late 1860's and we seemed to have used them in the Caribbean fairly extensively, right up until we stopped using them
alltogether.

The last gasp of jackie Fisher's obsession with speed above all were the "large light Cruisers" that Tigercat cites above were in no sense
Monitors. Even though their draft was shallower than comparable battleships, they were still proper sea-going vessels.


The Wikipedia article on Monitors is worth a quick look-I knew about the Huascar but the survival of the Solve was news to me.
One more pilgrimage to make when I get to travel again...

Forgot to add the link before I left earlier-enjoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monitor_%28warship%29

[tigercat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_monitor_Parna%C3%ADba_(U17)

What I should have said is that Glorious and all were a different approach to tackling shore bombardment the philosophy behind their desing was similar to monitors but the solution was completely different.

I suppose the best illustration is that in many ways the monitors evolved from the floating battery slow and unwieldy

Whereas you could say Glorious , Furious , Courageous  were more the descendants of the Bomb Ketch designed to get guns close inshore but still a ship at the end of the day. 

[NARSES2]

This gets more interesting as it goes along - thanks gents 

[Rheged]

This gets more interesting as it goes along - thanks gents 

I agree!   The quality and quantity of erudition displayed on this site is  remarkable.  Together, we probably  know the answer, no matter what the question!

[NARSES2]

This gets more interesting as it goes along - thanks gents 

I agree!   The quality and quantity of erudition displayed on this site is  remarkable.  Together, we probably  know the answer, no matter what the question!

Yup we probably have the answer if we can remember what the origional question was 

[Weaver]

What's more to the point, we can probably supply a question for any answer you care to think of, not to mention those you may not care to think of......

[tigercat]

 

WHIFF jeopardy

[tigercat]

The modern day sucessors of the monitors are probably in many ways the ballstic missile submarines or the US's proposed Arsenal ship

[rickshaw]

The modern day sucessors of the monitors are probably in many ways the ballstic missile submarines or the US's proposed Arsenal ship

As pointed out earlier, the Littoral Combat Ship concept is almost a direct descendent.  Designed for inshore, shallow waters and with a lot of launchers as a replacement for big guns.

[tigercat]

I'd missed that. Interesting not a type I was previously aware of.

[PR19_Kit]

As pointed out earlier, the Littoral Combat Ship concept is almost a direct descendent.  Designed for inshore, shallow waters and with a lot of launchers as a replacement for big guns.

Pity they didn't call them monitors, at least we mere mortals might have understood what the devil they were for then......

[sequoiaranger]

>I suppose the best illustration is that in many ways the monitors evolved from the floating battery slow and unwieldy<

In much the same way modern-day "torpedoes" evolved. In the American Civil War, for instance, "torpedoes" were simply static mines (as in Admiral Farragut's "Damn the Torpedoes; Full speed ahead!" saying at the mined entrance to Mobile Bay). Then, motors were added to propell them toward the enemy instead of just lying there, and they became "motor torpedoes". So a "motor torpedo boat" is less a "motorboat with torpedoes", but rather a "boat" loaded with "motor-torpedoes"!!

I just thought of a bio-whif-----The ancient gun turret mounted in the back of a large reptile--becoming a "Monitor Lizard"!

[Ed S]

Shouldn't that be a "lizard monitor"?

Ed

[Doc Yo]

Brilliant, Ranger!  I wonder how much the old "Endangered Species: Komodo Dragon" kit is going for these days