Group Builds - Change in Direction - Discussion Thread

[sandiego89]

I believe the timing of the last GB's with almost exact overlap of the start and stop of several builds was a significant problem.  Summer builds are also tougher for many.  The VTOL and ship ran at the same time, as did 46' and Africa. I got overwhelemed when two that I was interested in were active at the same time, and had the same deadline.   

I would also prefer one longish GB (9 month) and @3 shorter (4 month) per year, with none ending at the same time.  This would allow slow builders more time, but also the opprotunity to skip one if you were not interested in the subject, or did not have the time.  12 months is way too long

[McGreig]

For a variety of reasons connected to Real Life, I haven't completed a model for over a year but here are my thoughts anyway. I've read the proposal and this thread three times now and I have to say that I can't really improve on Weaver's comments:

I havn't the slightest interest in an Aussierama GB and having just flipped through 12 pages of GB proposals, I can't see where anyone else has proposed it either, so I'd love to know where the idea came from and how it's popularity was assessed, given that number-of-participants seems to be regarded as the measure of a successful GB, rather than quality-of-entries.

How exactly are "Themed Builds" supposed to work? Will anyone actually start and stop them on a dedicated sub-board, because if not, they will simply be discussed until the cows come home and nothing will actually happen. If that's the case, then you might as well transfer the Themed Build threads to the Ideas Bank, because that's all they'll be to all intents and purposes.

Weaver
Not Impressed

I also agree with this:

One year is way too long. I know it sounds odd, but experience has shown that if you can't get something completed for a GB within, say, six months, you're not likely to complete it within a year either. Six months has transpired as the longest workable timeframe on ARC, for example.

Particularly as, if my memory is correct, AnthonyP was originally appointed as GB Commissar precisely to keep the time frame of GBs relatively short and prevent them from extending aimlessly over ever increasing periods.

And if it's correct that uptake on GBs could be small because, by the time the build was scheduled after a GB idea had been suggested, supported and voted upon,  inspiration had moved to other areas, then I don't see how a year-long GB will solve this - there will probably be significant interest at the start (well, maybe not for Aussierama  ) but I can't see interest or inspiration lasting over the whole year.

McGreig
Even less impressed than Weaver

[Thorvic]

Nick

The Scope of Aussierama will be very broad and no it doesn't mean a Roo is compulsory, it will be explained in detail later.

[rickshaw]

I was wonder what "AUSSIERAMA" was when it appeared in the menu.

An interesting idea and one I'm prepared to listen to when its detailed.

I have several Australian builds planned for the future and this might be an excuse to bring them on.

[tigercat]

So for the Theme builds it's basically the current GB system but without having to wait for voting to choose the GB's so they can be started  while the impetus is fresh so hypothetically I could post

Who fancies doing a captured enemy equipment theme build running from the 25th September to 1st January ? and away we go?

[Weaver]

So for the Theme builds it's basically the current GB system but without having to wait for voting to choose the GB's so they can be started  while the impetus is fresh so hypothetically I could post

Who fancies doing a captured enemy equipment theme build running from the 25th September to 1st January ? and away we go?

And therein lies the problem: if no or only a few people respond, do you go ahead anyway and have a "unpopular" themed build, or do you wait and wait, trying to drum up support, until the idea isn't fresh any more? When it gets into an endless circular debate about what does or doesn't qualify as the theme, how are you going to draw that to a close when you have no official authority to say "that's in, that's out, we start now"?

[The Wooksta!]

Speaking as someone who's increasingly disenchanted with the site as a whole and group builds in particular, I really don't care any longer.

What does concern me, though, is what appears to be a heavy handed attempt to steer people towards something that the Admins want, rather than the average site member wants.  

What we have now isn't perfect, but it works.  If it has to be changed, can we at least have a referendum on it?

[tigercat]

I can see that being kind of depressing  surely  a better solution would be to streamline the voting procedure or to have voting more often to keep the ideas fresh. As soon  as theres 12 suggestions to have a vote perhaps

Also won't the site in general lose impetus if theres only the 1 GB . I know people post other models they're working on but without the GB won't things slow down on the actual modelling front. How many  models people post are GB entries or belated GB entries they're completing. 

[Supertom]

OK I've been gone all weekend so I haven't been able to post any responses.  We (as in the admin team) discussed this at length and usually we have some disagreements but we somehow managed to get a unilateral "yes" on this, along with a few tweaks.   To answer a few quick ones (since I'm short on time at the moment):

1) Why Aussierama?  This is a return to the "old" format, almost 8 years back when we did nationality-themed contests which turned out to be quite popular (Canadarama, Britorama, Da Comrade!).  We noticed that What-If has a fairly large Australian contingent so we thought it would be appropriate to acknowledge these great folks from the upside-down side of the planet 

2) Why one year?  I asked Geoff that too, and I had suggested 6 or 9 months.  Geoff pointed out that despite the upside-down/backward jokes that are made about the countries in the southern hemisphere, their seasons ARE backwards.  Their winter is our summer, etc.  As such while we're plugging away nonstop during the winters because we're trapped indoors, they're all running about doing outdoor projects (like Allan digging up his back yard).  Then when they're indoors we're out and about.  This gives everyone an equal amount of time to work on.  This also allows for as many subjects as you want to put in.

3) "Aussierama" doesn't mean Australian only.  You can do anything with an Aussie theme.  Australian F-22.  USAAF CA-32 Boomerang.  Norwegian Dingo.  Aussie Nimitz-class carriers.  Space Marines speak in strine and hold cans of XXXX or Foster's.  Aston Martin never recovered from the 80's and Holden becomes the new luxury car standard, etc.

4) There are WAY too many group builds in the queue, and everyone's waiting in line.  Ever see the votes?  A large number of GBs have 1, 2, 3 votes, even 0!  And with all the hype around the GBs, the actual turnout had been poor in some of these builds.  Part of it has also to do with timing - eg the Norwegian GB has plenty of steam right now, but 6 months later after it's been voted in and put into gear, there's little to no interest since the topic no longer interests the builder or is now too busy with other things (real life for example). 

5) Themed builds are pretty much unofficial group builds.  You can set the length, date, rules, you won't have to get approval, and everyone can have theirs whenever they want without that campaigning, arranging, stumping, etc.  We pretty much leave you guys alone unless there's an issue (eg a 9/11, 7/7 or 26/11 group build).  A great example would be the unofficial B-52 GB going on over at ARC.

6) We're also going to try archiving the group builds into a gallery so that these great creations won't get lost when the forums expire or get cleaned up.

7) We'll still hold the traditional GBs that have been fixture such as the One-Week build and Secret Santa build.

Bear in mind that for many, modeling is a seasonal thing, and for others it's more of an availability (especially those who have families).  The current GB model was a great idea until it got way too big and now it's become a fragmented mess.  Personally I'm not a big fan of the mess and would have preferred something more flexible.

[Taiidantomcat]

1946 GB wasn't as great as you may think as there were many cold war/modern builders who had no interest in the end of WW2 era so in that respect it was a restrictive group build. As for timing which 6 mths do you pick ?, we have modellers in both hemispheres, whats good modelling time for some different for others

All group builds have to be restrictive in one or another!  Thats why you run a few so people can pick

which six months do I pick? January 1 - June-30, and then July-1 - December 31. That way both get 3 months of cold, and 3 months of warmth regardless of hemisphere. equal time.

I know there is no solution that will universally make everyone happy, but personally I have to say I feel very down about the whole thing. I feel like we lost a lot of depth, and this isn't meant as "punishment" or whine fest but It looks like im not be going to be doing any GBs for the next 15 months at least. Most of the GBs on ARC are not whiff friendly. I'm going to be doing my own thing for a while. Which like weaver said has its good and its bad points.

[Spey_Phantom]

i do have plans for a Australian Navy Blackburn Buccaneer for a few years, and ive got some other projects in mind 
but i was wondering, does aussierama also include New Zealand, as i got plans for RNZAF F/A-18's 

[tc2324]

but i was wondering, does aussierama also include New Zealand

Don`t see why not, New Zealand is just proof that Australians can swim......          (I`ll get me coat)

Seriously, I`m a tad disapointed about the policy change, but what you gonna do??

A case of `suck it and see` I think.

I take it that the admin would be happy to revert back to the old way if this idea doen`t have the expected result??

[Doc Yo]

 Well, as the horse said " Nossir. Don't like it. " . I've found over the last few years that even the GBs that I don't participate in tend to spark
my creative urges, so I don't find them, or the attendant discussion, useless. Still, I don't pay the bills, or have to administer this site. Y'all can do
what you think is right.

[beowulf]

my two pennuth worth...............

im not sure about this but i dont mind giving it a go............after all if you you dont try something how do you know if it works.........and if it dosnt you just revert to what did work or try something else

the danger is that it will take over a year to find out if it does work and by then a lot of people will be p***** off and couldnt care less or vanished


BUT............


i think a year is waaaaaay too long.........when i get involved in GB (not just here...anywhere) i tend to participate at the start and once its done i have no further interest......i tend not to do a second project within the GB..........so that would be 11 months before the next GB comes along  

themed builds can be fun..........on another forum i frequent we do a lot of it....for example only 2 weeks ago i made a casual comment that we had never had a helo GB....a few others agreed ..quick discussion followed....consequence is that on 1st Oct im Build Leader for an sponatnious helo GB with about a gang of people already chomping at the bit to start

[kitnut617]

I'm not sure what to say here because in the last three years I've only managed to finish two builds in time and had to abandon or shelve all the others.  

The length of time proposed doesn't bother me as much as only one GB, for a year I think maybe three GB's of differing themes, each running for a year, would maybe work for most.  You could then have a 'Grand Champion' vote for the three different winners at year end.

Note: I'm not a 'Whiffy Contest' fan or anything along that line (here or anywhere).