Cannon Cruiser Query

[Cobra]

Hey Guys, i was scanning Google when a Question hit me:Has Anyone built a Model of a Cannon Cruiser? I'm Talking a Cruiser type Vessel with Heavy Cannon as the Main Armament. Part of the reason i as is that i once Built a Cruiser type ship in the Video Game 'Naval Ops Warship Gunner' and Armed it with a 120mm Cannon. Thanks for Looking. Dan

[pyro-manic]

120mm is actually a bit small for a cruiser! 120mm is a little less than 5 inches, and most cruisers were armed with 6" ("light" cruisers) or 8" guns ("heavy" cruisers). Certainly that was the case from the 1920s onwards, after the Washington Naval Treaty in '21. Some earlier (pre-WW1) cruisers were armed with large numbers of smaller casemated guns, often a mix of eg. 6" and 4.5" etc guns.

[Cobra]

I'm not Totally sure about the Size,may have a 105mm Cannon. the Game gave all Gun sizes in MM. Dan

[Weaver]

Most cruisers were armed with heavy cannons in the gun era. Post '21, the rough rule of thumb was that "light cruisers" had 6" (ish) guns and heavy cruisers had upto 8" guns (biggest allowed by the Washington Treaty). However "light cruisers" could vary widely in size and power, mounting anywhere from 6 to 15 guns.

Most navies stuck to the 6"/8" formula even if they were nominally metricated, but the Germans used 5.9" (150mm) guns instead of 6". Unfortunately, in most cases the "natural" metric equivalent of an imperial calibre is slightly smaller, and few navies wanted to have even slightly smaller guns than either their rivals or the treaty limits. The British also produced some 7.5" guns which were used on a few cruisers for the RN and one export to Argentina.

[Old Wombat]

105mm is approx 4" (common WW1 destroyer main guns)
120mm is approx 4.7" (common British destroyer main guns in WW2)
125mm is approx 5" (common US destroyer main guns in WW2)
155mm is approx 6" (common light cruiser main guns)
190mm is approx 7.5" (almost exact, actually)
210mm is approx 8" (common heavy cruiser main guns)
230mm is approx 9" (rare heavy cruiser main guns)
305mm is approx 12" (from here on down you're into super-heavy cruiser & battleship territory)
330mm is approx 13"
255mm is approx 14"
380mm is approx 15" (again, almost exactly)
410mm is approx 16"
460mm is approx 18"
510mm is approx 20" (don't think anyone ever built/used guns this big but the Japanese had plans for them?)

Hope this helps to some small extent.

[PR19_Kit]

...and the 11" guns the German pocket battleships had equate to 279.4 mm. How much do you bet they were actually 280 mm?

[Doc Yo]

 I'll just go get my calipers...   I seem to recall that the standard fit of WW 1 German light cruisers was 4.1 inch ( 105 mm ) guns, though that was
pretty much their last gasp as main guns on anything bigger than destroyers.

[NARSES2]

...and the 11" guns the German pocket battleships had equate to 279.4 mm. How much do yiu bet they were actually 280 mm?

Didn't the Soviets do something like that deliberately ? Various weapons of "75"mm calibre but the ammunition was all listed as being of slightly different sizes so that the peasant conscripts didn't get 5 different types of 76.2mm ammunition intended for different weapons mixed up ?

[Weaver]

Same with the "106mm" Recoilless Rifle. It's actually 105mm, but they called it 106mm to make sure some muppet didn't try putting a 105mm howitzer round in it (which would have been entertaining, but only from a safe distance.... ).

[pyro-manic]

...and the 11" guns the German pocket battleships had equate to 279.4 mm. How much do you bet they were actually 280 mm?

IIRC the Germans actually referred to them as 280mm guns.

[PR19_Kit]

...and the 11" guns the German pocket battleships had equate to 279.4 mm. How much do you bet they were actually 280 mm?

IIRC the Germans actually referred to them as 280mm guns.

There you are then. As they were made in Germany it's odds-on they really WERE 280 mm. It's only we Brits, with our well known hatred of anything Metric, who converted them to 11" guns. 

[rickshaw]

Same with the "106mm" Recoilless Rifle. It's actually 105mm, but they called it 106mm to make sure some muppet didn't try putting a 105mm howitzer round in it (which would have been entertaining, but only from a safe distance.... ).

Well, apart from the physical problems of trying to fit the round into the breech (their shape and volume are very different) I don't think much would have happened as the breech couldn't be closed.

[rickshaw]

...and the 11" guns the German pocket battleships had equate to 279.4 mm. How much do you bet they were actually 280 mm?

IIRC the Germans actually referred to them as 280mm guns.

There you are then. As they were made in Germany it's odds-on they really WERE 280 mm. It's only we Brits, with our well known hatred of anything Metric, who converted them to 11" guns. 

Calibres are a veyr funny thing.  Some nations will describe their weapons calibres one way and another a different way.  The British developed the 3in Mortar in WWI and continued to call it a "Mortar, 3 inch" for the rest of its life, which was long and varied but at some point in the development of the weapon, its calibre actually changed from "3 inches" or 76.2mm if you prefer metric, to actually being 81mm.   The nomclemamture did not change though.  Of course, 81mm was the common mortar calibre and there are many accounts of British units firing captured German ammunition and obviously this could not be possible if the weapon was actually 76.2mm in calibre!

[Joe C-P]

In the late 1800s, there were some armoured cruisers which carried a few heavy guns similar to battleships of the era.

There were ships before WW1 called battlecruisers, which were had cruiser speed and armour but with battleship-caliber guns. They were meant to chase down raiding cruisers, but were misused on the battle line.

Then came, as discussed, the German Deutchlands with their six 11" guns, meant to be raiders.
Then Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, which were somewhat up-sized Deutchlands with another turret of 11".
France responded with the Dunkerques, which were a sort of light battleship with eight 13" guns.
The IJN may or may not have considered building ships with 10" guns.
The USN definitely built 12" armed large cruisers to counter these.

There are other examples of cruiser-type ships with unusually large guns.