Short Brothers Blowpipe/Javelin/Starburst/Starstreak

[DarrenP]

Having been a Blowpipe operator in the past. I always have had a soft spot for the system and its successors.

Its contribution to the falklands campaign is now in dispute. However with its shaped charge warhead Blowpipe could have been used against armour as well. javelin's Blast fragmentation warhead wouldn't have been as effective. But the Tungsten carbide penetrators hitting an armoured target at mach 3 would certainly ruin its day.
Again against small vessels the shaped charge of Blowpipe and Tungsten Carbide penetrators at mach 3 would have interesting results on small ships. How ever I do think they don't have the reach of systems like seaskua.

[Weaver]

IIRC, the Mujahadeen used Blowpipes against Soviet armoured vehicles in Afghanistan a couple of times, having not had much success against aircraft, due mainly to training issues.

I've speculated many times about the possibility of a dual-purpose Starstreak, which replaces the three guided KE penetrators with one big penetrator plus a sleeve of flechettes, dispersed by a small charge on a time or proximity fuse. You thus get the "scatter-gun effect" neccessary to hit an aircraft, plus a serious anti-armour penetrator.

[DarrenP]

Shaped charge supposidly was most effective against the Hind's armour.

The new Lightweight multirole missile for AW159 Wildcat Lynx looks like its a devlopment from Thales

[Weaver]

As I understand it, the problem was not destroying Hinds but hitting them. As you'll appreciate, the effectiveness of Blowpipe depends upon a well-trained operator who's had lots of practice. Fine for a professional army, but not something you can drop to a bunch of guerillas in the field and expect them to master it from reading the manual.

Do you have one of those pictures posing with all the smashed-up target drones you hit?  

[rickshaw]

As I understand it, the problem was not destroying Hinds but hitting them. As you'll appreciate, the effectiveness of Blowpipe depends upon a well-trained operator who's had lots of practice. Fine for a professional army, but not something you can drop to a bunch of guerillas in the field and expect them to master it from reading the manual.

Well, as alluded to in the first post, there is some doubt now, that is even possible for a well-trained force.  However, it should be mentioned that it appears both the tactical situation and the environment may have been against the successful employment of Blowpipe down there in the Falklands.   Super-low flying aircraft with minimal pop-up time plus where the Blowpipes were sited may well have told against it.  Don't get me wrong, I think the Blowpipe was an excellent weapon system - in conception.  The problem is that an IR fire-and-forget missile just seems for MANPADS to be more effective and easier to employ.   I've often wondered how well the RBS-70 family would actually do, as it too is a CLOS system.

[Weaver]

The advantage of Blowpipe/Javelin/Starstreak or RBS-70 is that they don't have to be looking at a receding target (i.e the attacker's jetpipe) in order to engage. They can take on something like a hovering helo in the tree line who's IR signature is by no means clear. Another advantage is that the very fact that they do need training to operate means that they tend to stay in the hands of operators who's aircraft recognition is hopefully halfway decent, rather than being widely distributed: infantry are notorious for shooting at anything that flies......

Blowpipe's contribution to the Falklands was in dispute from almost immediately afterwards: it isn't a new thing. It's record down south was instrumental in Javelin being developed, which has SACLOS rather than MCLOS guidance.

[DarrenP]

Closest I got to the target skeet was 3m a tech kill have seen an impact and not alot left of the skeet and that was skeet being flown on Javelin profiles.
Yes it took 14,000 sets to train an operator and continuation sets to stay current.
Yes to be an operator you had to pass the advanced aircraft recognition test 120 slides calibrated to 6km no friendly hostile wrong and 6 names wrong.
Blowpipe was more skillful than Javelin as in Javelin you flew the cursor in blowpipe you flew the missile but was more effective.
Some of our instructors disputed the accounts of Blowpipe putting alot of the early lack of success down to planners not understanding how to deploy the system and setting it out for crossing targets not head on ones which it was designed for. I know that recently the performance of Raiper was also revised (more to do with internal RA politics than anything).
It isn't the most manprotable of things either as the field handling containers were so fragile picking a missile FHC up was likley to lead to the straps breaking off and the missile exceeding its drop limits of 6inchs. And with the LML it certainly was a pain in donkey to carry.

[DarrenP]

given Starstreak going into the Anti Tank role. If they had kept the shaped charge on Javelin could it have been a dual AA/AT weapon

[DarrenP]

Just looking at the Lightweight Multirole Missile being bought for the Wildcat and its variants could it replace STARSTREAK HVM and also be used in the Anti Tank role on land giving the Army a combined AD/AT system?

[Weaver]

It's a bit slow for anti-fixed wing work, but it should be okay against helos. Again, it's a bit light for use against MBTs, but it should make a nice mess of light armour. I could see a shoulder-launched version being useful, if not essential (which means it probably won't happen). One issue might be launch blast: since it's designed for use from helos and vehicles, it's launch back-blast might be a bit much for an exposed operator with his face right behind it.

[DarrenP]

seams from another forum they Lightweight multirole missile can be fired of a Starstreak(HVM) Aimer Unit. So could give seastreak concept a whole new lease of life.

[Aircav]

RPG is a lot cheaper for anti-armour, never understood why the British army got them along with a rifle the same calibre as the Soviets, be it 7.62x39mm or 5.45x39mm. 

[rickshaw]

RPG is a lot cheaper for anti-armour, never understood why the British army got them along with a rifle the same calibre as the Soviets, be it 7.62x39mm or 5.45x39mm. 

You feeling suicidal?  Rifle Propelled Grenades can't penetrate an MBT.

[Captain Canada]

Interesting stuff. I'll  have to go look around for some info on it's record in the Falklands.

[DarrenP]

Blowpipe and Raipers record in the Falklands was recently revised mainly to do with internal RA politics.