B-47 Stratojet

[jcf]

Page showing where the electronics were mounted on the WB-47E weather birds.

http://www.awra.us/gallery-feb09.html

Boeing proposed the Model 450-150-30 to the US Navy as a long range patrol bomber in 1951.
Generally of the same size and shape of the B-47 it was to be powered by four P&W J57-P-1 and
have a crew of five: pilot, co-pilot, navigator-minelayer, radio-radar ECM operator and gunner.
The pilot and co-pilot were to be in a raised cockpit that, based on the written description, was
similar to that of the XB-55 (Model 479).

Al Lloyd's book from Specialty Press is the best one on the subject.

One note about the turbo-props, the installation was a failure and the engines had so many problems that,
along with major propeller vibration problems, it only accrued 50 hours of light time in 18 months of testing.
When Boeing was asked to ferry the two test aircraft to Tinker AFB for re-conversion to bombers, Boeing
informed the Air Force that the trip would require at least one, and possibly two, en route stops to replace
one or both engines and/or propellers. 

[GTX]

Al Lloyd's book from Specialty Press is the best one on the subject.

Agreed.

Regards,

Greg

[Weaver]

I spotted an interesting kitbashing possibility the other day: the old Revell box-scale B-47 has the same fuselage diameter as a 1/72nd Il-28, and the engines from the Revell box-scale Skywarrior are a good fit on the B-47's wings. So, put the glazed nose and canopy from the Beagle onto the B-47, fit the two Skywarrior engines, and you have an Il-30-something-or-other advanced bomber prototype....

[Cliffy B]

Alright guys some more questions.  Did all 3 crew members have bang seats and if so when did they get them?  Would the Navigator be able to have one?  Look here: http://www.awra.us/gallery-feb09_files/WB-47E-Crew-2.jpg for a seat diagram.

In exploring the ordnance option, mainly torpedoes, I found some measurements.  The standard aircraft launched ASW torpedo in 1948 was the Mk-34; an improved Mk-24 FIDO with a better fusing system.  It measured in real life roughly 10.5' long with a 1.6' diameter or 19".  After measuring the bomb bay on the Academy 1/144 kit it looks like the in real life it was roughly 14.7' long by 8.5' wide.  Long enough for the fish and wide enough for up to 5!  Question is though with racks and spacing requirements would a realistic load out be closer to 3 or 4 fish in the bay?  With 4 weapons on the bay there's only about half a foot clearance between each one.  With 3 weapons there's a foot and a quarter of clearance.  Which is more realistic?

As far as the torpedoes themselves go I worked them out measure in 1/144 22mm long with a diameter of 3.35mm.  Does Evergreen make 3mm rod/tube stock?  I would LIKE to build in a bomb bay, open the doors, and display the fish mounted inside.  I might as well go all out  

If this is going to be a Maritime Patrol Bomber then she needs to be able to carry fish and depth charges and maybe even mines.  Externally I wanted a to mount some early guided anti-ship missiles based on the Tiny Tim 11.75" heavy rockets with 1-2 on each wing station.

Can MAD gear be housed in a wingtip pod?  I've never seen it anywhere but the tail before.  Also, when was it adopted?  I'll be depicting my B-47 in 1948 so it may not be a concern.

As far as the range issue is concerned with the addition of all the extra equipment, would you be able to hang drop tanks between the fuselage and the inboard engines?  That would leave the outboard racks available for more tanks or ordnance.  Thoughts?

GTX - I'm going to use the Bravo version as the basis for this build so the clear nose is a go.  The kit also comes with a completely clear nose cone too!  I was wondering if there's room/need for a twin 20mm turret in the nose similar to to the one the P2V Neptunes had as well as a dorsal turret.  For the sake of the whiff/coolness factor I think I'll do it!  I have a 1/144 B-25 for donor parts  

Any thoughts, ideas, comments, etc... are appreciated as always.

-Mike


*Edit:  I just found an interesting picture in the Squadron In Action book of an early B-47 with a longer bomb bay running the entire length between the two main gear wheels.  The production bays were only about 2/3 the length.  Both started right behind the forward gear doors but ended at different lengths.  After measuring that makes it about 24' in length; long enough to have 2 torpedoes end to end for a possible load of 6-8!!!!  I think I'll be enlarging it now  

[rickshaw]

Remember, you not only have horizontal width in that bomb bay you have vertical depth.  It would be possible to mount say four torps 2 x 2, say two deep on one wall and another two deep on the other wall and have the centre for depth bombs (depth charges tend not to be too aerodynamic ) and other packages.

As for Sonar Buoys, you have I think the perfect mounting for them - the RATO racks on each fuselage side.  Does your kit feature them?  I don't think you'd to use them in a patrol bomber.  You wouldn't be needing to take off in over-load condition too often.

[Cliffy B]

You got a point there Rick, didn't think of the depth of the bay.  Does anyone know the depth?  I can't find any figures on it and the drawings leave you guessing.  Seeing as how the kit has NO bay at all I'll have to completely scratch it and no one wants to own up to its dimensions 

The kit does have the RATO racks.  IF you want to use them you have to cut out a prescribed panel on the fuselage and glue in new ones with the racks installed.  Only kicker is they didn't include the actual RATO bottles, either molded on or separate...  I agree a USN bird wouldn't be needing them anyway.  Think I can drill some holes and mount them horizontally in the walls like on the SH-60s?  Might just go with making a decal of black dots, not sure I have a bit small enough or the patience 

I was going to mount the dorsal turret above the RATO racks anyway since the cutaway drawing shows some available space in there.  The gunner could double as the sonobuoy man, re-loading the launchers with more buoys stowed in the same area.

[kitnut617]

You got a point there Rick, didn't think of the depth of the bay.  Does anyone know the depth?  I can't find any figures on it and the drawings leave you guessing.  Seeing as how the kit has NO bay at all I'll have to completely scratch it and no one wants to own up to its dimensions  

The 1/72 Hasegawa kit has a bomb bay which measures 6 feet deep at the fuselage center, 7 feet wide and 13 feet long. The back wall is curved and at the longest part it's 15 feet.  Something doesn't look right though, the photos would suggest it's further back towards the rear wheel bay than how the kit has it.  And the cut-aways that Greg posted would suggest that the curved rear wall goes the other way too.

EDIT:  this link would suggest the bay is much longer, possible it's in two parts but also showing the curved rear wall the other way around to Greg's cut-aways
http://richard.ferriere.free.fr/3vues/boeing_b47_3v.jpg
This would make the bay 25 feet long.

[PR19_Kit]

All three crew had bang seats, but the Nav's went DOWNwards! Zero-zero it wasn't of course..........  

The recce versions with the extra crew guys in the bomb-bay didn't have seats for those poor saps, and they had to crawl forward and dive out through the main hatch.

Weren't there two bonb-bay lengths for the B-47? The early ones had long bays and the later versions (-Es?) had short ones.

[PR19_Kit]

This triggered off me re-reading the few B-47 books I have, and I got the bit about the Elint recce versions wrong.

The poor saps in the bomb bay did have bang seats, downward firing ones, but they had to sit in the tunnel alongside the main cockpit during take-off and landing. They stood NO chance if anything went TU near the ground.

Not only that, it seemed their seats didn't fire down through hatches, they had breakers mounted on the bottom of the seats that were intended to punch clean through the bomb-bay floor if they needed to get out! However tests proved that didn't work, but no-one told the crew!!!! 

[Cliffy B]

Al Lloyd's book from Specialty Press is the best one on the subject.

Agreed.

Regards,

Greg

Guys, I've been trying to find info on this book but have been coming up short.  According to SPs site they don't even print a book on the B-47    Anyone have the full title and/or ISBN number?  I'd like to buy a copy if I can find one.

[GTX]

This is the one:



# Publisher: Specialty Press; First Edition edition (Nov 2004)
# Language English
# ISBN-10: 158007071X
# ISBN-13: 978-1580070713

Some here:

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=3800760942&searchurl=afn_sr%3DCJ%26isbn%3D9781580070713
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boeings-B-47-Stratojet-I-Loyd/dp/158007071X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1296282675&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Boeings-B-47-Stratojet-Alwyn-Lloyd/dp/158007071X/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1296282759&sr=8-13


Regards,

Greg

[PR19_Kit]

Interesting inset piccie on the left side of the cover. Does that one have four Firebees under the wings?

That'd look really good in model form, so long as you had a) the B-47 kit and b) 4 Firebees of course.

[GTX]

Interesting inset piccie on the left side of the cover. Does that one have four Firebees under the wings?

That'd look really good in model form, so long as you had a) the B-47 kit and b) 4 Firebees of course.

Check out the photo in my initial reply earlier.

Regards,

Greg

[scooter]

Heh...I know someone who fried the EW suite on a EB-47 during SAC wargames over Alaska.  Then got a phone call from SAC HQ on how they did it.

[jcf]