Lockheed Super Constellation ' The next step'

[McColm]

Hi Guys,
I've been doing some research on the Super Connie and what I thought were 'whatifs' have been built. The follow-on aircraft from the Super Connie was the Starliner and over time they were converted back to Super G's.
When Lockheed launched the L-188 Electra 4 Allison T56 turboprop engines the USNavy took this design and developed it into the P-3 Orion.
The new wing and new engines were added to a Super G for trials and developement work. If this had gone into production the new model would have been called the L-084 and a new name given.

Before the Boeing E-3 Sentry entered service a WV-2E was modified to carry the Grumman rotating radar dome redesignated EC-121L.

Another possibility was to arm the 'Connie' with missiles for self defence whilst deployed during the Vietnam war.

The Indian Air Force flew nine ex-Air India 'Connies' in the maritime recce role from 1961-1976, handing them over to the Indian Navy. The navy used two in the frieghter role to carry passengers and materials. The Indian Navy flew the maritime 'Connies' fitted with a retractable dustbin radar antenna, until 1989. When they were replaced by the Tu-142 Bear.

[The Wooksta!]

IIRC, the Connie used the wing designed for the Lockheed submission to the B29 spec.  Might be fun to give the Connie a high mounted wing (just raise the position of the roots) and bomb bays (you'd have to rebuild the lower fuselage anyway), plus remote control turrets.

[McColm]

There was a plan to build a bomber version and I think that was covered in another topic.

[famvburg]

       Indeed, the proposed bomber version was called the XB-30. Anigrand makes a 1/144 model of it. When the USAF was developing a gunship replacement for the AC-47, among the proposals was an AC-121, a gunship variant. No details of what it would have had tho. The winner was of course the AC-130. Back in the '80s, the old Discovery Wings program on The Discovery Channel, which detailed a certain type per episode, in the episode for the Connie, toward the end was shown an AWACS version of, IIRC, the L-1649, with turboprops, huge twin fins, rotodome & a nose section that resembled the P-3, again, IIRC. Somewhere I think I have a photo I took of the TV screen when I paused it on my 4-head VCR then.  

There was a plan to build a bomber version and I think that was covered in another topic.

[jcf]

IIRC, the Connie used the wing designed for the Lockheed submission to the B29 spec.  Might be fun to give the Connie a high mounted wing (just raise the position of the roots) and bomb bays (you'd have to rebuild the lower fuselage anyway), plus remote control turrets.

Hi Lee, it's t'other way round, the proposed XB-30-LO was the Model 249 and was an armed development of the Model 049.

[McColm]

Thanks guys.

[famvburg]

         I found the photos of the L-1749 AWACS proposal. The turned out better than I expected when I scanned them. However, it's been so long since I posted a pic, I don't remember how & I reckon I'm looking in all the wrong places to find out how, but when I figure it out I'll post them. After finding them, it really looks like a stretched Electra or P-3 fuselage but with the 2 huge endplate fins & Starliner wings & turboprops & rotodome, not quite as I remembered as a Connie fuselage with a P-3 type of nose section. I can always email the scan if someone's interested.

      Indeed, the proposed bomber version was called the XB-30. Anigrand makes a 1/144 model of it. When the USAF was developing a gunship replacement for the AC-47, among the proposals was an AC-121, a gunship variant. No details of what it would have had tho. The winner was of course the AC-130. Back in the '80s, the old Discovery Wings program on The Discovery Channel, which detailed a certain type per episode, in the episode for the Connie, toward the end was shown an AWACS version of, IIRC, the L-1649, with turboprops, huge twin fins, rotodome & a nose section that resembled the P-3, again, IIRC. Somewhere I think I have a photo I took of the TV screen when I paused it on my 4-head VCR then.  

There was a plan to build a bomber version and I think that was covered in another topic.

[McColm]

Yes please.
I was thinking along the lines of the turboprop engines for the Shorts Sunderland. Both aircraft use radial engines and Heritage Aviation Models Ltd produce two conversion kits for the Dakota; Dart engine and the turbo as used by the S.A.A.F.
Alternatively you can place a square peg in a round hole.
On my Lockheed Neptune MR2 I used the C-130 engines supplied by David J Parkins and scrapped out the insides of the round engine cowlings. Taking care not to apply too much pressure when easing the long nosed engines into their new housing, otherwise the cowling will crack. For the exhaust pipes I used the two of the smaller swivel nozzles for an old Harrier kit.
  Last night I glued the E-3 Sentry spintop to the stand of an E-2 Hawkeye. As one the legs got broken, I cut these off and picked up my cut-down version of the Airfix Nimrod or Nimet as I call it and placed the spintop on top of the upper fuselage. BINGO it fits, so out came the glue. I've now got a pint-sized AEW Nimrod, that fills the gap between the Hawkeye and the Sentry. The tail fins from an A-10 will be added for stability at a later stage.
Back to the Connie, further research suggests that there was an ASW version used by the US Navy to locate submarines. I might add two Harpoon missiles to underwing pylons, M.A.D. boom and radardome.

[Jschmus]

The Navy did fly a turboprop Super Constellation in the 1950s, a modified R7V-2 with T-34 engines.

[McColm]

Thanks for the picture, I don't know if any after market resin kits sell the T-34 in 1/72 scale.

[PR19_Kit]

Thanks for the picture, I don't know if any after market resin kits sell the T-34 in 1/72 scale.

Only one production aircraft used the T-34 unfortunately, the C-133 Cargomaster, and I only know of one 1/72 scale kit of that, the Nova vacform, although there may be others of course. The Super Guppy comversions of the KC-97 used the T-34 also, but 1/72 scale kits of that are non-existant AFAIK.

[pyro-manic]

I think Anigrand makes a C-133 as well? In any case, it's engine nacelles are a completely different shape to the ones on the Connie in the above photo.

[famvburg]

     Have you got any details on the Nova kit? I've never heard of it. Back in the late '80s, Gene Hooker made a vac kit & IIRC, Combat Models & maybe Execuform make one, altho I think it is/they are the same Hooker molding. There was also one with a fiberglass fuselage too, maybe a predecessor to Hooker's full vac kit. I built the Hooker kit a long time ago & have the Anigrand kit in the stash. Some of the Guppy conversions use Allison engines like the P-3.

Thanks for the picture, I don't know if any after market resin kits sell the T-34 in 1/72 scale.

Only one production aircraft used the T-34 unfortunately, the C-133 Cargomaster, and I only know of one 1/72 scale kit of that, the Nova vacform, although there may be others of course. The Super Guppy comversions of the KC-97 used the T-34 also, but 1/72 scale kits of that are non-existant AFAIK.

[PR19_Kit]

     Have you got any details on the Nova kit? I've never heard of it. Back in the late '80s, Gene Hooker made a vac kit & IIRC, Combat Models & maybe Execuform make one, altho I think it is/they are the same Hooker molding. There was also one with a fiberglass fuselage too, maybe a predecessor to Hooker's full vac kit. I built the Hooker kit a long time ago & have the Anigrand kit in the stash. Some of the Guppy conversions use Allison engines like the P-3.

That may be the kit I'm thinking of. Those large vacforms are so rare here in the UK that they all get mixed up im my overloaded mind. 

One of the guys in the Sheffield Branch IPMS UK built one a long time ago, with a Thor missile being loaded into its cargo doors. I recall being WILDLY impressed at the size of the whole thing!

[rickshaw]

Anigrand do make a C-133 in resin but just as it weighs a ton, so it costs a ton of gold to purchase it!   Execform still makes the C-133.  I was in contact with them last year about it.   Slightly less weighty both in material and gold than the Anigrand one.