WHIFS from other forums

[Dizzyfugu]

My Su-19 popped up in the UK, in the secret projects forum. Funny thing is, that the model is based on a real (paper) design, apparently taken for real and then talked down by someone else as fiction... People are strange. 

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/various-sukhoi-projects-and-unknown-designs.11508/page-3

[zenrat]

My Su-19 popped up in the UK, in the secret projects forum. Funny thing is, that the model is based on a real (paper) design, apparently taken for real and then talked down by someone else as fiction... People are strange. 

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/various-sukhoi-projects-and-unknown-designs.11508/page-3

What do they mean "just" a model?

[scooter]

My Su-19 popped up in the UK, in the secret projects forum. Funny thing is, that the model is based on a real (paper) design, apparently taken for real and then talked down by someone else as fiction... People are strange. 

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/various-sukhoi-projects-and-unknown-designs.11508/page-3

What do they mean "just" a model?

As far as we actually know 

[sideshowbob9]

Over on secretprojects, they are quite fastidious that posts in that particular sub-forum concern real projects. They do have a sub-forum for more creative outlets so the Su-19 post is frankly in the wrong place and ultimately that isn't what that site is about, that is what this site is about.

Dizzy's Su-19 is a fictional rendition, a great one but it isn't a real aircraft photo or official documentation from the manufacturer etc. I think stating such is fair enough. I did take the trouble of directing credit to where credit is due, i.e. here!

[PR19_Kit]

But they, above all people on this scene, shouldn't be using the word 'just'.

[sideshowbob9]

Well, there's only one circumstance in which I would call something just a model. If I owned a real one. Fingers crossed for a B-58!

[Dizzyfugu]

But they, above all people on this scene, shouldn't be using the word 'just'.

That's a very good and wise point!

A model is a model. Period. About "good" and "bad" there might be wide opinion differences, but it remains a model, a simplified representation of a (more) complex issue. And in this case it is (just  ) the abstract representation of a project.

[tahsin]

They or at least a goodly part of them are authors of books, which should be "documented" to let them become documents. As such the Su-19 is just a model because there was no real plane like that, it is not a depiction of a plane that was real and actually anyone but the Secret Projects Forum would know the actual Su-19 "is" a fighting Fencer. (Which died with Bill Gunston.) With all due respect to SPF ... the owner of which should have been a moderator here as well. They become "bad" only when they get a feeling that they should fight trolls who unjustly attack Western projects, even if after years of harsh words that there would be no export variants with all the allusions of the term "downgraded", America still has to spend some actually unspecified money to "upgrade" confiscated F-35s just off the line with 0 hours on them.

[sideshowbob9]

Although bad-mouthing the....protracted....bumpy entry into service of the F-35 is very tempting, I shall refrain. Doh!

Dizzyfugu, can I suggest re-posting your Su-19 post from here in the User Artwork and Models sub-forum over on secretprojects:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forums/user-artwork-and-models.14/

You'll note the 2 sticky threads there recommend both here & BtS, right at the top. I think you'll find your models quite welcome there, in the proper context. There, it won't be in danger of being confused with something actually-historic and dare I say it, thoroughly enjoyed. Think of it like a filing project you've spent years on, making it just how you like it and then someone comes along and files something in the wrong place. I really don't think anyone needs to read anything more into it than that.

[NARSES2]

Dizzyfugu, can I suggest re-posting your Su-19 post from here in the User Artwork and Models sub-forum over on secretprojects:

I think part of the point is that Dizzy didn't post it, someone else did ? Thus whilst your point about having the filing just right and then someone puts something in the wrong place is very valid it wasn't Dizzy who miss-filed it ? I think that's the situation anyway. It's an "internal" Secret Projects Forum issue.

As for the use of just ? It could be used to say that it was never an actual prototype just a model of the project.

[sideshowbob9]

^I know someone else posted it, I posted over on secretprojects to direct them to the relevant thread here when I saw it yesterday, prior to any mention on here. Post 86 on that thread.

What I was suggesting is that if Dizzy was to post the entire shebang in the correct sub-forum, he would find quite a receptive and appreciative audience, despite the picture being painted here. The only "issue" I can see is that some people seem to resent attempts at categorization I though I could act as a bridge betwixt sites because there is, believe it or not, a huge degree of overlap but its just getting a bit too much like effort...

Seriously, this place just went a bit cliquey....

The next time someone's work from here comes up uncredited, I'll just STFU (you wish!).

[Dizzyfugu]

Dizzyfugu, can I suggest re-posting your Su-19 post from here in the User Artwork and Models sub-forum over on secretprojects:

I think part of the point is that Dizzy didn't post it, someone else did ? Thus whilst your point about having the filing just right and then someone puts something in the wrong place is very valid it wasn't Dizzy who miss-filed it ? I think that's the situation anyway. It's an "internal" Secret Projects Forum issue.

As for the use of just ? It could be used to say that it was never an actual prototype just a model of the project.

That's right, the picture has been fetched by someone from that forum - and things develop as they do. I have no influence on this, but got aware of the posting through FlickR's traffic stats - and I love to see what happens when 3rd parties use my material as reference for their own findings and the battle that normally ensues...  Besides, I keep spreading my material rather tight, this forum here is one of the few places where I post my stuff beyond the FlickR basis, because the audience is liberal and tasteful. I also do not use Facebook or Instagram, because I like the picture-oriented format of FlickR, which is rather a gallery than a blog.

[sideshowbob9]

Ok, Ok, I was going to use the am-dram device I posted above to illustrate a point on overblowing reactions to perceived slights (with the melodrama wacked up to 11) but now I'm going to have to blow my cover because:

this forum here is one of the few places where I post my stuff beyond the FlickR basis, because the audience is.... tasteful.

Tasteful? Really? 

Seriously, though Dizzy, I do think you are perhaps taking this a bit too personally. I think Narses has got it right, don't let the use of one of those "multi-contextual" words like just get you down.

For what it is worth, I'll happily confess to being really quite jealous of your skill and more than once have not bothered with a group build entry "cos Dizzyfugu's gonna win it anyway" (that and my glacial pace). I genuinely think that if you posted in the "correct" place over there, you'd make yet more fans, I'm not saying it cos I get air-miles over there! I certainly can understand your reluctance to spread far and wide though.

[tahsin]

l take real pride in knowing Bill Gunston's work better than "experts"; and everybody in this thing is right. Dizzyfugu might see a slight in a reference, people on SFC (as long as they are not on an anti-troll crusade in which they merely come out trolls of other companies) get bothered by those who fake things as if real. What if is certainly aware of people who want us to believe things, the "real UFOs" being the most innocent of ideas peddled. And ı agree if it was taken to the modelling section it would get two or three people admiring and a general notification that Dizzyfugu is JUST a talented modeller who doesn't peddle things. Should be satisfactory for everyone concerned...

[Pellson]

..For what it is worth, I'll happily confess to being really quite jealous of your skill..

Me too. But I am very well aware that I just can't be arsed to put down that effort, and so be it. I build for my own pleasure.
I love your stuff, Dizzy, and if someone steals a pic, I'd see it as concealed admiration, methinks.

Now - let's go back to looking at the stash we ought to be building..