Gnat as a DACT machine.

[lancer]

I've been thinking about this one for a bit and think it might just have been feasible. Especially considering that it got the nickname of Sabre Killer in the Indian Air Force, it was certainly small enough and nippy enough for the job. So, here's where I invite you lot to discuss, disdain or just rip the idea to shreds the idea*

I think I'll put some thought into knocking up a couple of them Red stars and all.

*  select as appropriate

[Weaver]

The thing with a DACT aircraft is that it's supposed to represent the enemy aircraft you're likely to be facing, and unless you're planning on fighting India (who's air force only had a relatively small proportion of Gnats anyway), then the Gnat's very uniqueness, especially it's small size, counts against it. If you're the RAF (the only air arm with Gnats to spare as DACT aircraft), then a Hunter is probably a better analgue for a MiG-17, and every subsequent threat aircraft is bigger than that.

Here's a thought though: how about using it's small size to simulate a missile for training purposes? You could see it playing the part of an SSN-2 Styx for the navy, or an AS-5 Kelt for the air force.... In fact, it's somewhat surprising that the RN's FRADU unit never used them: it currently uses Hawks for exactly that purpose, and reading it's history, I suspect the only reason it didn't use Gnats was that there were more spare Hunters available. A Gnat in FRADU's all-black colour scheme would be so credible it would probably be a good JMN-fooler actually.....

History of FRADU: http://www.fradu-hunters.co.uk/history.html

[PR19_Kit]

But in a WhiffWorld situation almost ANY other nation could use small fighters, thus increasing the number of possible DACT scenarios by an almost infinite amount.

[Weaver]

But in a WhiffWorld situation almost ANY other nation could use small fighters, thus increasing the number of possible DACT scenarios by an almost infinite amount.

Oh sure: probably the best way to get to that would be to have Gnats supplied to some other country, then have that country go through a politcal upheaval and end up as the enemy. Suppose, for instance, that the UK supplied Gnats to Guatemala as part of a deal whereby they recognised Belize, but that Guatemala then went back on the deal, rasing the possibility of Belize-based Harriers encountering Guatemalan Gnats....

[Mossie]

In fact, it's somewhat surprising that the RN's FRADU unit never used them: it currently uses Hawks for exactly that purpose, and reading it's history, I suspect the only reason it didn't use Gnats was that there were more spare Hunters available. A Gnat in FRADU's all-black colour scheme would be so credible it would probably be a good JMN-fooler actually.....

History of FRADU: http://www.fradu-hunters.co.uk/history.html

Could Blue Fox fit for a M variant?  You might need to widen nose like the F.2 for the AI-23 but it might be doable?

[Thorvic]

In fact, it's somewhat surprising that the RN's FRADU unit never used them: it currently uses Hawks for exactly that purpose, and reading it's history, I suspect the only reason it didn't use Gnats was that there were more spare Hunters available. A Gnat in FRADU's all-black colour scheme would be so credible it would probably be a good JMN-fooler actually.....

History of FRADU: http://www.fradu-hunters.co.uk/history.html

Could Blue Fox fit for a M variant?  You might need to widen nose like the F.2 for the AI-23 but it might be doable?

Not a chance, as you need the avionics space as well as the larger nose for the Radar. You would need one of the later larger Gnat variants that were propossed to do that.

Now a Hawk 200 with Blue Fox or Blue Vixen might be interesting 

[Howard of Effingham]

the best idea i can come up with for the new gnat, is as a trainer for the angel interceptor.

but weaver's idea of a gnat as a missile simulator is very good.

[JayBee]

In fact, it's somewhat surprising that the RN's FRADU unit never used them: it currently uses Hawks for exactly that purpose, and reading it's history, I suspect the only reason it didn't use Gnats was that there were more spare Hunters available. A Gnat in FRADU's all-black colour scheme would be so credible it would probably be a good JMN-fooler actually.....

History of FRADU: http://www.fradu-hunters.co.uk/history.html

Could Blue Fox fit for a M variant?  You might need to widen nose like the F.2 for the AI-23 but it might be doable?

Not a chance, as you need the avionics space as well as the larger nose for the Radar. You would need one of the later larger Gnat variants that were propossed to do that.

Now a Hawk 200 with Blue Fox or Blue Vixen might be interesting 

The old Matchbox kit.

[Mossie]

Cool.

Going back to the idea of DACT, while the Gnat might not be perfect for the role, it might be useful for a private company such as QinetiQ, FRA, ATAC & such.  Small inexpensive trainer that can be used for a number roles, crew training, threat simulation, systems R&D.  Other trainers have been used in similar roles.

[perttime]

how about using it's small size to simulate a missile for training purposes? You could see it playing the part of an SSN-2 Styx for the navy, or an AS-5 Kelt for the air force....

There's a company in USA that says they've been using the Bede Bd-5J to simulate cruise missiles: http://www.freedomjet.com/

The Gnat would be faster, at the very least.

Rutan's ARES has been used for some experimental things and it is not a big aircraft. (it looked UGLY with whatever they did to it for those experiments...)

[Radish]

Plan on having most of my Gnats as single-seaters, using the aft cockpit for "other stuff"....some will be RAF, and some others....

Like the RN option too.

[Mossie]

using the aft cockpit for "other stuff"....

Meerkat carriage???

[Weaver]

In fact, it's somewhat surprising that the RN's FRADU unit never used them: it currently uses Hawks for exactly that purpose, and reading it's history, I suspect the only reason it didn't use Gnats was that there were more spare Hunters available. A Gnat in FRADU's all-black colour scheme would be so credible it would probably be a good JMN-fooler actually.....

History of FRADU: http://www.fradu-hunters.co.uk/history.html

Could Blue Fox fit for a M variant?  You might need to widen nose like the F.2 for the AI-23 but it might be doable?

Not a chance, as you need the avionics space as well as the larger nose for the Radar. You would need one of the later larger Gnat variants that were propossed to do that.

Now a Hawk 200 with Blue Fox or Blue Vixen might be interesting 

IIRC, the original radar proposed for the Hawk 200 was "Blue Hawk", which was basically a Blue Fox with a cut-down aerial. It ended up being cheaper to use the in-production APG-66 instead, but if any of the potential customers had had a difficulty with that (i.e. couldn't get a US export licence) then presumably Blue Hawk would have been an option (well at least as long as Ferranti lasted....)

[rickshaw]

Isn't there a company in the US which uses Gnats for DACT and threat simulation work with the US forces?  They supplied the Gnats which were used in the movie "Hot Shots" IIRC.

[Mossie]

ATAC uses Hunters, but IIRC the Gnats in Hot Shots came from a number of private owners?