Italian Licence built Flying Fortress and it's implications

[tigercat]

I stumbled across this paragraph and while it seems unlikely that Boeing would licence the B17 to the Italians it makes for intriguing speculation.

In 1938 the RA issued a request for proposal for a BGR (Bombardiere a Grande Raggio, long-range bomber); proposals came from Caproni with their Ca.204 and Ca.211 projects, CRDA with Cant. Z.1014 (built only in mock-up form), Piaggio with the P.108B (a private venture project, offered as an additional entry) and the P.112. Also considered was the purchasing of a production license for the Boeing B-17C 'Fortress', but this idea was later discarded for reasons of autarchia (national self-sufficiency).

[Logan Hartke]

The Russians tried to get a license to build it, too, but the US wasn't too keen on granting it.

Cheers,

Logan

[tigercat]

I'm suprised the Russians bothered to ask , didn't stop them with the B 29

[Logan Hartke]

Pre-WWII was different than post-WWII.  Pre-WWII, they didn't have any examples as patterns.  They got built the DC-3 and Catalina under license.  They also got some other licenses that they didn't use.

Cheers,

Logan

[tigercat]

interesting , do you happen to know which aircraft they didn't make but licenced. Theres definite WHIF potential there.

[Hotte]

Churchill had the intention to keep Italy neutral. With offers of territorial expansion. If you think in this direction is quite possible.
The RAF ordered some Re 2000 and France had ordered planes in Italy.


Hotte

[Logan Hartke]

interesting , do you happen to know which aircraft they didn't make but licenced. Theres definite WHIF potential there.

I can't remember off the top of my head.  I think some are covered in Yefim Gordon's book on US aircraft in the Soviet Union, but I think a Seversky fighter was among them.

Cheers,

Logan

[Weaver]

The Russians actually built some Vultee V-11 attack aircraft under licence as their first venture into "Shturmoviks". Unfortunately, the additional armour seriously robbed the aircraft of performance, so they were all eventually gifted to Aeroflot as mail/courier planes.

I have a kit of one with the eventual intention of doing it in Spanish Republican colours.

[Daryl J.]

B-17C flying with 4 Alfa Romeo 128's in N. Africa.   
That would break up the OD Green or NMF clan a bit.   

[tigercat]

plus wait untill the Italians share it with their German allies.

[CANSO]

...but I think a Seversky fighter was among them.

Two Seversky fighters were tested in the USSR: 2PA-L(c/n R-189M) and 2PA-A(NX1307-amphibious). After the tests they were not recommended for purchase or licensing:

Glenn Martin delivered the large "Soviet clipper" (M-156), which could be build under license (as a flying boat-bomber), but in fact never was:

Vultee V-11G was built as the soviet BSh-1 (military) or PS-43 (Aeroflot, civil):

 

[NARSES2]

Never seen that "Soviet Clipper" before. Very interesting. Thanks for posting 

[CANSO]

Never seen that "Soviet Clipper" before. Very interesting. Thanks for posting 

I have it with Soviet (civil) markings - must find it. Have some photos showing the delivery (by sea) too.
The Soviet engineers mounted a special rotating bomb rack and tested it, but later preferred smaller, land based airplanes as maritime bombers (A-20, Il-4).
I have a kit of the Martin Clipper M-130 "China Clipper", which I wanted to turn into a "Soviet Clipper", but never had the chance . Basically only the wing and the empennage are different. The fuselage remains the same.

A full set of drawings was also delivered to the Soviets. Sadly enough the "monster" was scraped and left no trace. As we know the fate of all Panam Clippers was the same...

[NARSES2]

Thanks for that 

[CANSO]

Here's the rest. (I appologize to all who expected to find some Italo-US bombers as the name of the thread says. )