Vickers Supermarine 583

[Thorvic]

Next scratch build. (Okay now i have a bit of time i can write up the details as only had time to attach the images this morning )

This build is of the Vickers Supermarine 583 VG put forward for the AW406 requirement to replace the Sea Vixen as a Carrier based interceptor. The task was to match the Phantoms performance with a design using newer technology to produce a more compact and efficient design as the 50's technology was producing larger heavier aircraft that were getting too big for our carriers. As fate would have it the requirement was merged with the RAF Hunter replacement Day Strike Fighter with RN Sea Vixen replacement (All weather interceptor ) that's produced the ill fated P1154 program which could never meet both sets of requirements, so in turn was replaced in the RN by the Phantom as a stop gap measure.

The 583 was to use the newer generation of engines, radar & Barnes Wallis's VG technology to produce a carrier capable all weather interceptor. The design was intended to be used from any of our Carriers including the likes of Hermes & Victorious. It was hoped that a later strike capable version could be developed carrying ASGW to eventually replace the rather large & heavy Buccaneers (the size & weight of the Buccaneer/Sea Vixen combo had reduced the airgroups on the smaller carriers to minimum levels, and in fact Centaur was only capable of taking just one of the types. Had it gone ahead then by the end of the 60's we would have had the 583 replacing the Sea Vixens aboard the carriers, the Phantom would not have been needed for naval use and the smaller carriers could carry a viable airgroup. Export potential was good as it would have been a viable alternative to replace the Crusader/Sea venom/Sea Hawk so potential for French, Australian, Indian users, possibly even Brazil, Canada, Dutch.

On to the build, some may remember that i built one way back in 2002/3 as one of my first scratch built whiffs as i was inspired by the recently published British Secret Projects:Fighters by Tony Buttler. With the Project Cancelled SIG theme being 'Inspiration' i decided to go back and do a fresh build of one of the projects that i was inspired to build back in those early days.

This build uses the PM Flagon kit for the forward fuselage, the shape is quite a good match but will need to create a new wheel bay and cockpit, the nose cone needs a slight point down from the datum line so i will do a razor cut and insert a a slither wedge to set it correctly.

The wings are as kit pointed out rather unusual thus existing VG wings are just not right for the job, These wings are from an old U-2 kit that have been adapted to get the correct shape. They will be cut down at the wing route to the correct length once i have decided how to configure the VG workings.

The rear fuselage is the back end of a tornado, i have cut out a strip from the centerline to narrow the fuselage in line with the drawings and removed the spine, i have then built up the interior using plastic strip blocks and built up the undercut ahead of the wheel bays as the intakes are further forward than the Tornado so they do not flare out to meet the intakes.

Still need to source a cockpt tub, suitable tail planes and tail fin along with all the extra bits to bring out the details.

The next step of the build will be to cut down the forward fuselage of the flagon so it can be test fitted to the rear fuselage and the join supports created. Once those are done i can sort of the fwd fuselage details, work out the wing location and configure the wings then build up the intakes either side of the fwd fuselage so the rear fuselage flare out can be reshaped to merge with the intakes .

[Hobbes]

Looks a bit like the Su-24 Fencer. What are you using as the base kit?

[Mossie]

oooOOOooo! 

[PR19_Kit]

I never did understand the reasons for those odd, reverse curved shaped wing tips. The variable geometry TSR2 proposal had the same shaped tips, but why? What was wrong with tips shaped like a Tornado, F-111 or Su-24?

[Thorvic]

I never did understand the reasons for those odd, reverse curved shaped wing tips. The variable geometry TSR2 proposal had the same shaped tips, but why? What was wrong with tips shaped like a Tornado, F-111 or Su-24?

Because thats a 1963 design from Vickers(supermarine) so used the Barnes Wallis VG research coupled with RAE's swept wing reseach as the wings when swept are similar to the Lightnings

[The Wooksta!]

Looks a bit like the Su-24 Fencer. What are you using as the base kit?

PM Su 15 Flagon for the front end with an Hasegawa Jaguar as the back?  Can't ID the wings tho.

Edit:  Looking again, it's a cut down Tornado back end.

[PR19_Kit]

I never did understand the reasons for those odd, reverse curved shaped wing tips. The variable geometry TSR2 proposal had the same shaped tips, but why? What was wrong with tips shaped like a Tornado, F-111 or Su-24?

Because thats a 1963 design from Vickers(supermarine) so used the Barnes Wallis VG research coupled with RAE's swept wing reseach as the wings when swept are similar to the Lightnings

Yes, I understand where the shape came from, I just don't get WHY it's shaped like that.

Barnes Wallis did some Swallows with that curved tip and some with very long pointed tips, but very few with the square cut ones we're used to these days.

[rickshaw]

Curve tips have steady drag curves perhaps?

[NARSES2]

Looking forward to watching this come together 

[Kerrillc]

This build has got me all agog! And such potential! Or maybe I'm going all overenthusiastic - again! Has anyone heard from trekaddict recently? He has a thread on AlternateHistory.com called Operation Tidespring and the 583 is in action there, although it is called the Rapier. I think I'll PM him as it would be a shame for him to miss this.

Regards

K

[Thorvic]

Thanks kerrillc

Yeap the 583 had potential, so much so that BAC tried to revive the project when the P1154 for the Navy was rejected, although i don't know how much of the concept went into the Anglo French Variable Geometry (AFVG) program as most people focus on this type as a precursor to the Tornado they forget it was orginally meant to be a Carrier based interceptor.
I have seen some source quote that the RN F-4 Phantom procurement was actually seen as a stop gap Sea Vixen replacement whilst they developed the smaller lighter more capable VG Naval Interceptor and later Strike version for the 1970s. They wanted to match or better the performance of the Phantom & Buccaneer but using new technlogy and materials to produce a smaller effeicient design than the 50's brute force approach. Its a pity really as the smaller European Naval VG aircraft for the 70's could have allowed for a more practical Hermes or Victorious sized ships to continue in service or allow a smaller more viable replacement to the CVA-01 design.

Anyway back to the build i need to have a look around and sort out a suitable cockpit i can use so i can get started on the forward fuselage, once i have the the cockpit and nose gear bay sorted i can then look to creating the bulkheads to allow the fornt fusealge to be mated with the rear fuselage and see where the VG wing would effect this joint.

G

[James]

I'll be watching this! 

I have seen some source quote that the RN F-4 Phantom procurement was actually seen as a stop gap Sea Vixen replacement whilst they developed the smaller lighter more capable VG Naval Interceptor and later Strike version for the 1970s. They wanted to match or better the performance of the Phantom & Buccaneer but using new technlogy and materials to produce a smaller effeicient design than the 50's brute force approach. Its a pity really as the smaller European Naval VG aircraft for the 70's could have allowed for a more practical Hermes or Victorious sized ships to continue in service or allow a smaller more viable replacement to the CVA-01 design.

I always thought that a carrier design of similar size to HMS Victorious would have been best suited for the RN - maybe enabling 3 carriers. The 583 is a project I've always thought had so much potential, especially in order to keep the RN and FAA in the CATOBAR carrier game. 

[Kerrillc]

I had this rather errant thought about the cockpit, I might very well be wrong but the 583's cockpit has a resemblance to the TSR2.  It's a bit of a reach but does the airfix stratos 4 kit have an alternative cockpit area that might be used or is the idea a product of my own wishful and muddled thinking?

Regards

K

[PR19_Kit]

The Stratos 4 kit has a different cockpit interior and a solid one piece 'canopy', as well as the original TRS2 kit parts, but the general shape is pretty much the same as normal.

[The Wooksta!]

TSR2 is much bigger too.