Catapault launched Aircraft with Torpedoes or Rockets

rickshaw · April 22, 2012, 03:13:23 AM

Quote from: NARSES2 on April 22, 2012, 02:02:10 AM
Tigercat and Kit. Thanks for the info on the Swordfish floatplane

I'll have to re-read my books covering the two Narvik battles - been looking at taking the Royal Norwegian Mail ship cruise up the Norwegian coast. Don't think she stops at Narvik though

You going to be a real man and do it in Winter?

CANSO · April 22, 2012, 04:11:29 PM

Quote from: tigercat on April 20, 2012, 11:54:35 PM
I have never heard of any catapult launched aircraft carrying out a torpedo attack so I'm assuming that because of how they were launched carriage of a torpedo was impossible.

The Aichi M6A Seiran was designed to carry one 45 cm aerial torpedo or a bomb weighing up to 800 kg (or 850 kg-I don't remember). Around the end of WWII it was planned to use the Japanese submarines I-400 and I-401 and hit USN anchorage at Ulithi Atoll. The plan was code-named Arashi for the submarines to use Serians. At sea, I-400 suffered an electrical fire on August 5th that forced it to surface to repair the damage, but successfully reached the rendezvous point, 100 miles miles south of Ulithi on August 14th. The I-401 was not there. In fact on August 14th, the I-401 made a detour due to American acitivity near the Marshall Islands and sent a message to I-400 revealing a new rendevous point. I-400 never received it. The strike date was set for August 17th, but Japan surrendered on the 15th. The crews of the submarines were ordered to destroy the Seirans (eventually push them into the ocean).
Only one of this type survived and is in the NASM today. I heard more details about the above mentioned mission in the museum some 5 months ago.
In any case I think the point is that Seirans could be catapult launched, carrying a torpedo.

NARSES2 · April 23, 2012, 12:52:50 AM

Quote from: rickshaw on April 22, 2012, 03:13:23 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on April 22, 2012, 02:02:10 AM
Tigercat and Kit. Thanks for the info on the Swordfish floatplane

I'll have to re-read my books covering the two Narvik battles - been looking at taking the Royal Norwegian Mail ship cruise up the Norwegian coast. Don't think she stops at Narvik though

You going to be a real man and do it in Winter?

Nope summer for me, I'll just try and imagine what it was like for my dad in winter

The ship does travel al year round though and in spring/summer at least it's a daily service. Takes 7 days/6 nights Bergen to Kirkenes

perttime · April 23, 2012, 01:57:57 AM

Quote from: CANSO on April 22, 2012, 04:11:29 PM
In any case I think the point is that Seirans could be catapult launched, carrying a torpedo.

My concern was what kind of stresses a catapult launch would put on whatever is used to mount a torpedo on an aircraft.

PR19_Kit · April 23, 2012, 08:33:53 AM

Quote from: perttime on April 23, 2012, 01:57:57 AM
My concern was what kind of stresses a catapult launch would put on whatever is used to mount a torpedo on an aircraft.

'If all else fails use bigger bolts' to quote my 'Strength of Materials' lecturer back in 1962.

rickshaw · April 23, 2012, 07:09:05 PM

Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 23, 2012, 08:33:53 AM
Quote from: perttime on April 23, 2012, 01:57:57 AM
My concern was what kind of stresses a catapult launch would put on whatever is used to mount a torpedo on an aircraft.

'If all else fails use bigger bolts' to quote my 'Strength of Materials' lecturer back in 1962.

Was that bigger in length or bigger in diameter or both?

Obviously, size does matter.

PR19_Kit · April 24, 2012, 04:46:46 AM

Quote from: rickshaw on April 23, 2012, 07:09:05 PM
Was that bigger in length or bigger in diameter or both?

Obviously, size does matter.

Diameter was the preferred option.

At the time we were working on schemes to retro-fit seat belt achorages to cars that weren't designed for them in the first place. Some of the 'bolt on modifications' had to be seen to be believed as a result of the 'Bigger Bolt' thinking!

dadlamassu · April 24, 2012, 11:54:27 AM

Did warships carry air drop torpedoes? The ones carried by aircraft were smaller and lighter to those shot from warship torpedo tubes.

NARSES2 · April 25, 2012, 01:55:11 AM

Good point - could have caused confusion

PR19_Kit · April 25, 2012, 02:42:49 AM

Presumably they WOULD have carried air-drop torps if they needed to.

And there wouldn't have been a chance of loading the wrong size onto an aircaft as it just wouldn't have fitted the torp racks. Likewise an air-drop torp would have been a VERY loose fot in a 21" tube!

Rheged · April 25, 2012, 09:49:54 AM

Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 25, 2012, 02:42:49 AM
Presumably they WOULD have carried air-drop torps if they needed to.

And there wouldn't have been a chance of loading the wrong size onto an aircaft as it just wouldn't have fitted the torp racks. Likewise an air-drop torp would have been a VERY loose fot in a 21" tube!

I can confirm that some cruisers DID carry 18" air drop torps for Seafox or Swordfish floatplanes. My sources say up to four of them, but no-one was happy about having them stowed anywhere but in a magazine an inordinate distance from the hanger and catapult.

Come to think of it, the results of an 18" air-drop torp launched from a 21" tube are not, I would suggest, pleasant to contemplate.

dogsbody · April 25, 2012, 06:55:23 PM

The Fairey Seafox was for recon only. The engine didn't have enough power to hoist an 18" torpedo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Seafox

rickshaw · April 25, 2012, 09:58:26 PM

Quote from: Rheged on April 25, 2012, 09:49:54 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 25, 2012, 02:42:49 AM
Presumably they WOULD have carried air-drop torps if they needed to.

And there wouldn't have been a chance of loading the wrong size onto an aircaft as it just wouldn't have fitted the torp racks. Likewise an air-drop torp would have been a VERY loose fot in a 21" tube!

I can confirm that some cruisers DID carry 18" air drop torps for Seafox or Swordfish floatplanes. My sources say up to four of them, but no-one was happy about having them stowed anywhere but in a magazine an inordinate distance from the hanger and catapult.

Come to think of it, the results of an 18" air-drop torp launched from a 21" tube are not, I would suggest, pleasant to contemplate.

Reminds me of this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlYNb66LjHs

PR19_Kit · April 26, 2012, 01:33:57 AM

I used to do some work at an MoD place on the shores of Poole Harbour where they tested torpedoes. The guys there had some HORRENDOUS tales of 'things going wrong'!

The only trials I ever witnessed all went fine though, apart from the one where the torp's motor failed to start and it just splashed into the water and sank immediately.

CANSO · April 26, 2012, 06:31:15 AM

Quote from: dadlamassu on April 24, 2012, 11:54:27 AMThe ones carried by aircraft were smaller and lighter to those shot from warship torpedo tubes.

I don't know much about the British aerial torpedoes, but the late Mk.13 (US) had tail and drag rings and was dropped with an wooden fin for stability in the air, as in this movie. This could not be mistaken, I guess.
BTW this one below is a beauty - I don't know what it is, but it looks...steam-punkish to me

. It's in the British Museum of Naval Power see here.