Mcdonall Douglas KC-11 et all

[Sentinel Chicken]

No Series 30 I'm aware of has the short rear fairings. Those were only some of the early Series 10s.

That would indicate Revell were in error issuing a kit with the short fairing and the centre leg. AFAIK no -10s had the centre leg fitted, or did they?

Fascinating stuff about the 'Four Pack' of fairings, I never have managed to make sense of some DC10 pics that showed some aircraft with them and some without. I guess it's time related whether they had them or not. Do you know if they added the 'Four Packs' to the P&W engined -40s at all?

That's right. There are no Series 10s with the centerline main leg that I know of.

The "four pack of fairings" was a popular option, but there were Series 30 aircraft that rolled out of Long Beach as late as 1988-1989 that didn't have them. So they were still optional as late as then.

As for the Series 40s, the main customers were Northwest Orient and Japan Air Lines. The early Series 40s out of Long Beach lacked that "four pack of fairings". Just about any Series 40 in Northwest Orient colors lacked the fairings. Northwest shortened their name by dropping "Orient" around 1986 after the acquisition of Republic Airlines. The "bowling shoe" color scheme with the red top and broad gray cheatline was introduced around 1989. The Series 40s still with Northwest then still lacked the fairings. Northwest operated the Series 40s until around 2002 and from what I can tell, the fairings were never fitted.

JAL is all over the map, though. They were the other big Series 40 customer and it all depends upon when the JAL Series 40 rolled out of Long Beach. Early JAL aircraft lacked the fairings, middle of the run JAL aircraft had only the horizontal stab fairings, and late production JAL aircraft had the whole four pack package. They're the only airline I'm aware of that was all over the map on the fairings. The Series 30s are easier- either they have all four of them or not.

And then there's the real freaks of JAL's fleet of Series 40s, the ones configured for domestic operations. They were called Series 40Ds. Not a factory option, simply a Series 40 that had the centerline main landing gear removed. Why tote it around when it's not needed as the 40Ds were never loaded with that much fuel to need it? So JAL called the one with the center gear the Series 40I (for Intercontinental). And what JAL did was swap out the aircraft in service but leave the fairings alone. So you could see a 40D with all the fairings or some of the fairings or none of them likewise with the 40Is. It all depended upon the cycles, since a 40D had more cycles due to its high frequency domestic services, the airline rotated them out to spread the cycles evenly across the Series 40 fleet.

[Sentinel Chicken]

And if you think the fairings were confusing, just wait for the engines. There are several configurations of hot section exhausts over the course of the DC-10's career. Let me know if you want me to really muddy up the waters with those.

The only reason this stuff is important to me is because I'm working on prints of the DC-10. So the timeframe, variant, airline customer and particular aircraft has a great bearing on my artwork as I have to incorporate (or remove) certain elements.

[Gondor]

After Sentinel Chickens last couple of posts to this thread I think I will go and lay down in a darkened room for a bit until my brain stops spinning around 

Gondor

[PR19_Kit]

Hehehe, amazing stuff you find here.  

The stuff you've mentioned about the 40s confirms what I'd deduced from photos I'd seen Mr Sentinel Chicken sir. I've flown in every one of NW's '40s over the years as I used to go to MSP maybe 3-4 times/year since 1978. I couldn't find obe piccie of a NW 40 with any sort of fairingm whereas the JAL ones seemed to have any or all of them.

Your mention of the DC-10 engines sound good too. From the two 1/144 models available they're obviously only the earler 'finned' exhausts whereas in reality I've never seen a real one like that so presumably GE/McD updated them quite early one.

I'll await your exposition on them with interest.  

[Gondor]

OK I have looked at all three versions/boxing's of the Revell DC-10 that I have. The two civil versions have the short rear faring behind the wing. All three kits have no fairing in front of the wing nor is there a fairing on the fin the engine mounting. The Kc-10 kit has larger fairings that the other two and all three have fairings above the tail planes.

What I need to do is to have the civil versions to the same standard as a "normal" long range aircraft would have been excluding the modifications that I am making to the engines and tail fin.

In comparison the Airfix kit has long fairings behind the wings and no fairings in any other place.

To put it mildly I am getting a little lost as to what is required to produce what I want 

Gondor

[Go4fun]

If this is WhIf World then you can just set up standards to please yourself.
Just saying.

[Sentinel Chicken]

Your mention of the DC-10 engines sound good too. From the two 1/144 models available they're obviously only the earler 'finned' exhausts whereas in reality I've never seen a real one like that so presumably GE/McD updated them quite early one.

Well I don't want to find Gondor in a fetal position rocking back and forth under his bench, so I'll leave it that the the early "finned" hot section exhausts of the CF6s were hot section reversers. Clamshell ones. They proved to be unnecessary when you consider the volume of air moving through the bypass fan around the core is much greater, so it was less of a maintenance headache to delete the hot section reversers on the core and stick with the reversers in the cowl for the bypass air.

[Sentinel Chicken]

OK I have looked at all three versions/boxing's of the Revell DC-10 that I have. The two civil versions have the short rear faring behind the wing. All three kits have no fairing in front of the wing nor is there a fairing on the fin the engine mounting. The Kc-10 kit has larger fairings that the other two and all three have fairings above the tail planes.

What I need to do is to have the civil versions to the same standard as a "normal" long range aircraft would have been excluding the modifications that I am making to the engines and tail fin.

In comparison the Airfix kit has long fairings behind the wings and no fairings in any other place.

To put it mildly I am getting a little lost as to what is required to produce what I want 

What I would suggest is creating a backstory that can justify making your life easier. A military DC-10 won't need the underfloor cargo holds for baggage, so you can put auxiliary tanks in their to extend the range of even a Series 10 to that of the longer ranged Series 30s. You have two civil DC-10s with the short rear fairings and none of the longer fairings or fairing "four pack" that was used on the Series 30s. Use those civil DC-10s as Series 10s pulled out of the desert or picked up second hand and modified with auxiliary underfloor tanks to extend the range without having to try to replicate the fairings used on the Series 30s that had them.

See, I understand what you're doing. I'm like that. I want to do "plausible" whiffery. But Go4fun does have a point. I'd suggest be accurate and plausible as is practical for the build.

[Gondor]

Your mention of the DC-10 engines sound good too. From the two 1/144 models available they're obviously only the earlier 'finned' exhausts whereas in reality I've never seen a real one like that so presumably GE/McD updated them quite early one.

Well I don't want to find Gondor in a foetal position rocking back and forth under his bench, so I'll leave it that the the early "finned" hot section exhausts of the CF6s were hot section reverser's. Clamshell ones. They proved to be unnecessary when you consider the volume of air moving through the bypass fan around the core is much greater, so it was less of a maintenance headache to delete the hot section reverser's on the core and stick with the reverser's in the cowl for the bypass air.

I am using GE CF6-80 engines from Braz models intended for B767-300's which at least the inner pair will have their pylons modified or will be added to pylons from the kit. The use of this type of engine was suggested to me by PR19_kit and I am quite happy to go with the suggestion even if it is quite expensive.

What I would suggest is creating a backstory that can justify making your life easier. A military DC-10 won't need the underfloor cargo holds for baggage, so you can put auxiliary tanks in their to extend the range of even a Series 10 to that of the longer ranged Series 30s. You have two civil DC-10s with the short rear fairings and none of the longer fairings or fairing "four pack" that was used on the Series 30s. Use those civil DC-10s as Series 10s pulled out of the desert or picked up second hand and modified with auxiliary underfloor tanks to extend the range without having to try to replicate the fairings used on the Series 30s that had them.

See, I understand what you're doing. I'm like that. I want to do "plausible" whiffery. But Go4fun does have a point. I'd suggest be accurate and plausible as is practical for the build.

I can understand the point Go4fun makes but like you said I want to do "plausible" whiffery.

So the back story will be -10's removed with re-manufactured wings and tails to make them four engined with more tankage added under floor. Would adding the extra undercarriage leg be a reasonable thing to do to help carry all that extra fuel though? I am leaning towards "yes" as it would be fairly easy to add to the -10 I have. Revell of course have been very helpful in not saying which versions their kits are supposed to depict.

Gondor

[PR19_Kit]

SC, something about your last piccie in the post about the 'Four Pack' was ringing bells. Checking with my log book I see I'd flown N211NW to MSP in early 1999! 

I didn't make notes about any fairings, or lack of same, way back then sadly. It seems '211 was an ex-Swissair, ex-SAS -30 aircraft, and the thing that started bells ringing in my head was that it was an NWA DC10 but NOT a -40. That #2 engine intake is so distinctive on the -40s.

[Gondor]

I found this while performing a search of DC-10 modelling builds in the hope of finding that someone had modelled the extra fairings and left a record of how they did them.

Posted 20 July 2006 - 03:00 AM  on ARC Forums
"Things different about DC-10's":

In addition the aft wing/body fairing, there can also be one added in front of the wing. It's utterly non-existent on early ones, but pretty obvious on those that have it.

Tail fairings: These all go together--if a DC-10 has any of these, it has all of them.

A. A fillet at the base of the fin LE. Also present on all MD-11's.
B. Fillet at root of h.stab LE.
C. Enlarged "mount"/stab/body fairing. Also shaped differently. Easiest way to tell is to compare LE of stab/body fairing position to aft door.

All KC-10's have all of these mods. Also, the extra forward wing/body fairing is present ONLY if the tail fairing mods are present. You can have the tail fairings alone, but never wing fairing without tail fairings.

Now, everything above generally applies to the DC-10-30, and thus there are many variations of the DC-10-30---from "only the enlarged aft wing/body fairing" (all -30's have at least that), to also having the tail and forward wing fairings. Also, they can be modified! Go look at KLM's for a good example. They had some of the first -30's built, but over the years retrofitted all the extra fairings. I know some of B.Cal's and I think Swissair's also were modified.

However, the DC-10-10 only comes in two variations (yes, I looked at EVERY DC-10-10 built). Either "as first built", or "with every modification possible". The latter is quite rare, but does exist. Thus, you have a DC-10-10 with "-30" fairings all over it. All the DC-10-15's interestingly are like that as well---a -10 with "-30" fairings everywhere.

Finally, there are two distinct visual types of CF6-50's. (and I cannot find any link between how they LOOK and their model designation---CF6-50A/C/C2 all seem to be able to have whichever appearance they feel like)

Some pics to explain:

Here's two DC-10-30's, with and without the tail fairings. Be sure to note the foreground one has the stab/body fairing almost touch the rear door at its top, while the "leading point" of the background one's is further aft and lower:

http://www.airliners....file/0305142/L

And here's a good shot showing the fairing at the LE of the wing:
http://www.airliners....file/0515335/L

And one without:
http://www.airliners....file/0079643/L

Finally---despite being quite "late" DC-10-30ER's seem to have no specific configuration and usually do NOT have the extra fairings that signify late-build or modified -30's---have to check each one. The rare MD-11ER was the same way. (MD-11 mods are unique to that family)

(This'd be a LOT easier if we could upload pics---I have pics on my PC I have expressly for showing the differences)
This post has been edited by David Hingtgen: 20 July 2006 - 03:02 AM

Pasted from <http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=91565>

I am considering adding the fairings but I am nervous as hell about doing it.

Gondor

[Gondor]

Defiantly going to make the builds as recycled -10's as I have found out from the Aerofax book that both the -30's & -40's had an extra 10' added to the wingspan as well as all the previously noted changes.

It's not all bad though. The range is quoted as 3,800 miles (6,114km) with 250 passengers so plenty of range especially if IFR was added in addition to extra tankage in the holds.

So the -30 version that I have will have it's third leg removed  and used as a JSTARS aircraft and probably the same engine types that I am using for the -10 which I am building as an MPA.

Gondor

[Gondor]

Defiantly going to make the builds as recycled -10's as I have found out from the Aerofax book that both the -30's & -40's had an extra 10' added to the wingspan as well as all the previously noted changes.

I should ask PR19_Kit to extend the wings for me considering his penchant for long wing length.

Gondor

[PR19_Kit]

I should ask PR19_Kit to extend the wings for me considering his penchant for long wing length.

Hehehe, how long would you like? 

[Gondor]

Slow progress at the moment, always is during the week, especially as I am filling in windows, lots and lots of windows 

I have backed the fuselage window areas with plastic card in the same way that the clear plastic in the kit was supposed to be used. I am now cutting up plastic into lots and lots of small rectangles to fill the windows with so reducing the amount of filler required to make a nice smooth exterior to the fuselage.

The more I read the Aerofax book on the DC-10 the more I am developing the back story for the builds. It also appears that I am building the aircraft in the reverse order that they will appear in the back story which obviously will sort of follow real events.

Gondor