A Modernized Black Widow

[scooter]

Don't know if its been done before, but...I had the crackpot idea of the P-61 being pulled out of the Boneyard, refurbished with a pair of T-56s in place of the R-2800s and the gunpack moved to the belly.

And yes, I know they were almost all scrapped after the War, but this is Whiff-world, where anything is possible.

[chrisonord]

sounds perfectly ok to me
Chris.

[RussC]

Workable, it would predate the OV-10 by a lot of years.

As long as whiffing away at it, get rid of the rear observers greenhouse and blister and site a J-57, low - so the exhaust sneaks under the tail. Or maybe a third turboprop.

[frank2056]

I love the idea of a turbo-prop P-61. The T-56 has almost twice the power of some R-2800 variants, so your P-61 would be grossly overpowered. I think a bigger problem is getting the P-61 to last until the mid 50s, when the T-56 was produced. An option is to use the crappy T-40 used in the Convair Tradewind, since it's a late 40's design. Plus you could put contra-rotating props for extra awesomeness.

The P-61 already has four 20mm guns in the belly - would the turret be for ground support?

[scooter]

As long as whiffing away at it, get rid of the rear observers greenhouse and blister and site a J-57, low - so the exhaust sneaks under the tail. Or maybe a third turboprop.

I was planning on ditching the rear observer's greenhouse anyway, fair it over and turn it into an avionics bay.  I'll probably start working on the backstory at work today.  Since nothing's going to get done anyway because of the 4 day holiday weekend.

[Mossie]

Basically an F-15 Reporter (they were still around until the late sixties so helps with your backstory) or do you want to keep the side-by-side cockpit?  Airmodel do a vacform conversion, Lonestar Models do a resin one.

[PR19_Kit]

Airmodel do a vacform conversion....

But you wouldn't introduce your sister to one of them! 

[scooter]

Basically an F-15 Reporter (they were still around until the late sixties so helps with your backstory) or do you want to keep the side-by-side cockpit?  Airmodel do a vacform conversion, Lonestar Models do a resin one.

I was planning on keeping the step cockpit, and replace the framed transparencies with new.  Now to find props with out canning the C-2/C-130 kits. 

[scooter]

First part of the back story-

With the end of World War 2, the USAAF identified the need to keep a dedicated night fighter in service, and selected the P-61A/B Black Widow to continue on in that role.  However, being a wartime build, the airframes were tired, overstressed, and not built for extended service life.  Northrop, at the urging of former IX AF commander General Carl "Tooey" Spaatz, submitted a bid to zero-time the existing aircraft, while submitting a second bid to reopen the Black Widow production line.  With the bid accepted, Black Widows began rotating through Northrop's El Segundo plant.  Rebuilt Black Widows were assigned throughout the USAAF and early USAF to Continental Air Command and US Air Force Europe, and designated F-61Cs along with new build Black Widows.

With the invasion of South Korea by the North, F-61s squadrons rotated through assignment with the Far East Air Force.  With F-51 and F-80 losses beginning to mount from ground fire close air support missions, FEAF wing commanders began looking at using the F-61s in the close air role, something that the airframe did briefly during the previous war.  Even though it was a moderately successful night interceptor, earning two MiG kills in dawn dogfights, the Widow earned its keep as a close air platform, and spent the rest of the conflict in that role.

[Army of One]

Awesome stuff....!!! Love that plane and can't wait to see how it turns out.......the Aviation Hobby shop in UK do some great white metal propellers at a reasonable price......H

[kerick]

P-61 had 20mm x 4 underneath and .50 cal x 4 in top turret which rotated 360.  The turret was an aerodynamic problem when pointed other than straight ahead.  Many units during WW II removed then completely. 
A P-61 with the 20mm and bombs + rockets under the wings would look really cool.  Think twin engine Skyraider.  Press on I say!

[scooter]

P-61 had 20mm x 4 underneath and .50 cal x 4 in top turret which rotated 360.  The turret was an aerodynamic problem when pointed other than straight ahead.  Many units during WW II removed then completely. 
A P-61 with the 20mm and bombs + rockets under the wings would look really cool.  Think twin engine Skyraider.  Press on I say!

Model and engine enroute.  Just having a problem sourcing 1/48 Herk/Hawkeye props. 

[Doc Yo]

As long as whiffing away at it, get rid of the rear observers greenhouse and blister and site a J-57, low - so the exhaust sneaks under the tail. Or maybe a third turboprop.

I was planning on ditching the rear observer's greenhouse anyway, fair it over and turn it into an avionics bay.  I'll probably start working on the backstory at work today.  Since nothing's going to get done anyway because of the 4 day holiday weekend.

  It occurs to me that if you're going with turboprops, you won't need the leading edge intakes either. ( oil
coolers? No idea what they are ) which would free up space in the wings for more fuel, or more guns.

  I also wonder if changing the turret to a simple dome as opposed to teardrop shape, would address the
aerodynamic problems? Great concept, in any case-looking forward to seeing the build

[scooter]

I was planning on ditching the rear observer's greenhouse anyway, fair it over and turn it into an avionics bay.  I'll probably start working on the backstory at work today.  Since nothing's going to get done anyway because of the 4 day holiday weekend.

  It occurs to me that if you're going with turboprops, you won't need the leading edge intakes either. ( oil
coolers? No idea what they are ) which would free up space in the wings for more fuel, or more guns.

  I also wonder if changing the turret to a simple dome as opposed to teardrop shape, would address the
aerodynamic problems? Great concept, in any case-looking forward to seeing the build
[/quote]

More fuel inboard and an extra engine fire bottle.  After all, Murphy's a b*stard.

[Ed S]

  It occurs to me that if you're going with turboprops, you won't need the leading edge intakes either. ( oil
coolers? No idea what they are ) which would free up space in the wings for more fuel, or more guns.

Turboprops also use oil coolers. The oil is the hydraulic fluid that is used to move the variable pitch props. It is constantly moving through the props under pressure and heats up. If you look at turboprops, many of them have a small auxiliary intake and that goes to the oil cooler. One example I'm familiar with is the OV-10. The intake below the prop is for the engine. Just above the prop is a smaller intake and that goes to the oil cooler.

HTH
Ed