M-7 SPAAG - A little help please!!

[deathjester]

Here's my latest project, a little sojourn into the world of alternate armour for a change.

A couple of years ago, a good friend of ours gave me an old Matchbox M-7 Priest he had given up on.  This dilapidated old warhorse has stared at me folornly every time I opened my bits box.  On occasion, I picked it up, offered bits up to it, scratched my head, and put it straight back in the box.

But not now.

A recent discussion about AA Guns on another forum started me thinking - maybe, just maybe, I could make something like a ZSU AAA system?

So here it is!



Turret is made from Plasticard and spares, and mounts twin radar directed 'forties.  Hull has been built up with various tank parts.

Now for the help part:  Colour scheme.  I'm thinking British Army late Forties / early Fifties Green & Black stripe camo - but do you guys have any suggestions?

Over to you guys!

[kerick]

Reminds me of something the Israelis might have built.  Interesting idea.  Of course that would make it desert sand color.  Are you familiar with the Sgt. York system from the 80s?  Similar turret idea on an M48 hull.  Keep us posted.

[deathjester]

Reminds me of something the Israelis might have built.  Interesting idea.  Of course that would make it desert sand color.  Are you familiar with the Sgt. York system from the 80s?  Similar turret idea on an M48 hull.  Keep us posted.

Yes, I know what you mean - I did think Israel, as it looks cobbled together, and there were plenty of M-3's out in the deserts....ARRGH - so many colour schemes and operators, and only one model to apply them to !!

I read up on Sgt. York - staggering that they could take such a simple idea, and over-complicate it so much that it didn't work at all !!

Mine shall work by virtue of being nothing to do with Ford.

[rickshaw]

It would be incredibly top heavy, and unstable, I think.  It would also be excessively tall which would prevent its movement by road or rail.  Its an interesting design and really needs a better hull, something much lower to do it justice.  The ZSU-23-4 is 2.576 m tall.  That is about the height of most MBTs.  Cut the M7 down to the normal hull height or even lower to the tracks and you might have something better.

[deathjester]

I'm being non-conformist this week!  Since it is built from an M7, it kind of speaks of not having anything else to hand (true enough), so a stop gap vehicle before a fully matured 'from the ground up' system is fielded.

My primary question is: what colour do I do it?

Ideas:

BAOR Green/Black stripe

Powder Blue with two diagonal white stripes down the hull - ceremonial vehicle?

Artic off-white/grey

Urban Camo

[rickshaw]

If you want to go down that track, thats fine.

As for camouflage - why not Berlin Brigade?   

[deathjester]

If you want to go down that track, thats fine.

As for camouflage - why not Berlin Brigade?   

'...Down that Track?'  Oh, Ha de Ha Har!!    Tanks for that mate!

What exactly does 'Berlin Brigade' camo look like - and what time period was it used from?

[Steel Penguin]

Berlin Brig is the funky 3 colour block style.  and was used from 82 ish onward.  but whens that stopped us?
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,33960.360.html
3rd pic down on the above page.

[deathjester]

Cheers mate - that is real nice!

BTW, did Kit ever finish the chocolate chip Jaffa Hob he was working on?!!

[Mossie]

There's a potential real world link to a backstory, the Berlin Brigade used a few older vehicles for training purposes, such as Ferrets.  If you need some help with it, I've got a publication with schemes of most of the former types.  IIRC, the blocks were always the same height, regardless of the vehicle size.

Now for the help part:  Colour scheme.  I'm thinking British Army late Forties / early Fifties Green & Black stripe camo - but do you guys have any suggestions?

How about the late war Mickey Mouse scheme?  I think it may still have been in use early post-war, but I'm not certain.

[deathjester]

There's a potential real world link to a backstory, the Berlin Brigade used a few older vehicles for training purposes, such as Ferrets.  If you need some help with it, I've got a publication with schemes of most of the former types.  IIRC, the blocks were always the same height, regardless of the vehicle size.

Now for the help part:  Colour scheme.  I'm thinking British Army late Forties / early Fifties Green & Black stripe camo - but do you guys have any suggestions?

How about the late war Mickey Mouse scheme?  I think it may still have been in use early post-war, but I'm not certain.

If you don't mind scanning some pages and emailing them to me, that'd be great!

[Mossie]

I'll see what I can do, home computer is in for repair and I might be able to use the works scanner but we're very busy next week then I'm on holiday.  Might be quicker to photocopy them and post them, either way I'll get them to you.

In the mean time, there's a few links that are useful. Don Color has a reasonable proile and rear view of a landie in Berlin Brigade camo.  It won't let me link direct to the page, but click on http://www.jpsmodell.de/dc/main_e.htm, then Camouflages (on the left hand side panel), Vehicles, By Country, United Kingdom, United Kingdom (again), Modern, Urban Camouflage Scheme and it'll give you the profile with a list of RAL colours (they actually used these rather than BS colours, it's not just an approximation)

There's also a nice diagram of a Chieftain here:
http://www.armouredacorn.com/Refs-%20Thumbprints%20&%20Images/Camouflage%20Patterns/Britain/Chieftain-Berlin.pdf

[deathjester]

A little bit of a story to go with it - be gentle, my creative writing skills are a bit rusty!

27th June 1986

'...looks like it's gonna be another thrilling day at Potsdammer Brucke, just me, the British guys marching about, and a whole lot of nothin' to do.  How long do you suppose Col. Farnes can be mad at me for?  At least that Dutch girl , Anya, still writes me...!!

Not so bad here.  The Brits have some pretty good beer in their 'NAAFI', and my duties as US Army liason officer just mean that I gotta watch how they do stuff, and write reports on it.  We all know it's just a 'nothing 'job, but I guess that's what happens when you get caught in the hotel room of a Dutch General's daughter!

About the only interesting thing to do around here (apart from the beer!) is helping 'Sarge' Winston out with his old tank.  He's a funny old guy from the Royal Artillery - Lord knows how old, but the local comedians in the garrison reckon the forty year old camp was probably built around him!
 That tank is an odd one too - looks like an old M7 SPG hull that someone's stuck a huge AAA turret on top of.  It's ugly, ungainly, and probably unstable as hell, but it has a certain charm none the less!  The guys here call it the 'Bull'  I asked if that was as in 'Bull in a China Shop', but they smiled, and replied 'no, the other meaning!'

Whatever.  I like the old guy and his stories about the Falklands, and since my old man was in the tank restoration business, I wound up helping fix up the thing - none of it's worn out - it just doesn't work very well.
Hopefully, I'll get to finish it before the Col. finds some way of kicking me out of the Army...'

Lt. Shaun Jacobs closed his diary thoughtfully.  It sure wouldn't make good reading for the kids he one day hoped to have.  Neither would getting kicked out of the Army for 'conduct unbecoming' go down well with his ever disapproving mother.

He looked out towards the parade ground, where a squad of the 9th/17th Lancers were practising formation marching, to the tune of the bellowing tones of their RSM.  'No, not doing any Top Secret marches there - nothing to report!' He thought idly.  He wondered if he should requisition a video camera, and film the parades...naah, no-one would bother watching it.

He shook himself out of his reverie, and headed for the old shelter where the 'Sarge' was working on his tank.  The shelter was tucked away in a small wood behind the barracks, well away from the sheds where the Lancers Sabre light tanks were parked.  One of the doors was open, and muffled swearing, interspersed with loud clanging could be heard from within.
 Jacobs eased through the gap between the doors, and took in the scene inside:  Sarge's ever present civilian assistant, Joey was squatting on the APU housing, shining a big worklight in the turret electronics bay, and passing tools to Sarge, whom was headfirst in the bay, only his legs sticking out.  Every so often, an arm would stick out of the hatch too, and a muffled voice would request another tool.
Joey looked up at his approached, and offered a quick thumbs up to Jacobs.  'What's he up to?'  mouthed Jacobs.  Joey shrugged his shoulders.

Just then, a voice floated out of the hatch  'Oi - I said an adjustable, not a ring spanner, you prat!'  Joey hastily supplied the correct tool, and Jacobs couldn't could help but reply 'See, I TOLD you he talks out of his donkey - he sounds clearer that way!'

A muffled 'eh!' came from inside the tank, followed by a thud, and a much louder 'Oww!!' and Winston slid out of the hatch, rubbing the back of his head ruefully.  'Oh , it's you is it, Yank?!  Stop bloody well messing about, and get the fuel injectors reset like you said you would!  Honestly, farting about like that wouldn't get you far in the south atlantic, and I...'  He went on for a bit as he dived back into the guts of the radar.
Jacobs smiled as he unlatched the engine cover, it was just like coming home...

                                                                            < - >

A distant rumbling awoke Jacobs from a fitful sleep.  The glowing face of his Omega dutifully reported that it was half six in the morning.  Shouting and vehicles starting up could be heard outside his room.
 Jacobs hurriedly dressed, grabbed his webbing belt, and dashed out of the door:-
The scene outside seemed to be one of utter confusion:  troops ran this way and that, without any seeming pattern.  Then Jacobs saw the RSM directing things, and made his way to him.

The man was issuing orders at a fantastic rate - he glanced over at Jacobs in between orchestrating the defences, and requesting reinforcements - 'Better get to your post, sir...  Russians are coming!'  He remarked dryly, before stalking off, barking orders as he went.
'And where the heck is that', wondered Jacobs, as he struggled to get his head round the RSM's off hand comment - were they really at war?

His question was answered as the horizon lit up with an almost too bright light - people in the open shielded their eyes, and gazed at each other in mute horror.  Surely the Soviets couldn't be that crazy, could they?

It was then that some one touched his arm.  He spun around to see 'Sarge' Winston, and the ever faithful Joey standing there.  Clearly, they had been grabbing an early breakfast; Winston had dribbles of tomato sauce down his overalls, and Joey was juggling a hot pasty of  some sort he'd rescued.
 'Come on Yank - I reckon your post is with us, lad', and he led the way to the shelter where the 'Bull' was kept.  'I think we're going to need some AAA support soon...'
The shelter doors squeaked and squealed  as they were hauling them open, and the early morning light shone weakly across the bow of the Bull, glinting off the cannon muzzles.  'You really think this thing'll work?  asked Jacobs, warily.  Joey smiled grimly, shrugged his shoulders, and scrambled up the hull, and into the drivers seat.  'Not one for wasting words, is our Joey' said Winston with a smile 'we'll be fine - come on Yank, you're with me'  He gestured up to the turret, and started to climb the rings set in the hull sides.
Suddenly, they stopped - the garrison air raid siren began its mournful wailing
'JOEY !!'  yelled Winston,  'Start her up!  We're about to have company!!'

From the drivers hatch came a thumbs up signal, while from the back of the vehicle came an asthmatic wheezing and groaning sound.  Joey played around with the controls furiously until, with a stuttering roar, the big old Continental radial burst into life.  Winston dropped into the turret, and immediately began throwing switches.  Jacobs followed suit, but stayed stood up in the hatch to see what was going on.

The Bull clanked slowly out of its shelter, and trundled heavily down the access road towards the parade ground, Winston, muttering obscenities under his breath, working hard on an open electrical panel.  From his vantage point, Jacobs could see the perimeter defences of the base, wher they troops were setting up extra sandbags to make another machine gun position.  But he could see something else too.
'Hinds!!' he screamed down into the turret, as the huge attack helicopters popped up over the treeline they had used to cover their approach, and dashed for  the base.  White trails slashed from their wings as they salvo fired their rockets at the walls.  Hefty explosions raged along the defence perimeter, blowing the gate and surrounding wall apart.  One of the Hinds slashed directly towards the Bull, nose turret turning to bear...











'DOWN!! '  yelled Winston, as he grabbed Jacobs, and pulled him down into the turret.  He scrambled past him, and slammed the hatches shut, just as the Hind's gunner opened up with his 12.7mm rotary machine gun.  

CLANG!CLANG!CLANG!SPANG!SPANG!

The rounds thudded into the armour, striking an incredible line of sparks down the vehicles side as the Hind strafed them from stem to stern.  The noise was deafening.  A dazed Jacobs watched as Winston leapt back into the gunners seat, and yelled into the intercom 'Hold it here Joey!'  Instantly, the Bull slewed to a halt, and Winston took advantage of the stillness to finish the connections on the open panel, and push it back into place with a thunk.  He turned to face Jacobs  'Look here lad, those Hinds are too fast to target manually - we'll have to fire up the radar system - if it doesn't work, get ready to bail out - fast!!'
Then he turned to the main control panel, and flicked on the master switch.  On top of the Bull, the dish for the modified AI23 AIRPASS radar, that had hung limply in its cradle abruptly jerked upwards on its mounts, and began to rotate leisurely.  Meanwhile, the Hind's had looped around the woods, and one had detached from the main group, and was settling into position for an anti-tank missile shot at the  strange AFV by the parade ground.

In the turret, the radar display showed the grim news ' We're getting outflanked here Sarge' noted Jacobs heavily.
Winston pointed urgently 'Quick - that panel to the left of the cupola controls - flick that guarded switch from 'MANUAL' TO 'AUTO'....and hold on!'

Meanwhile, the Hind's gunner centred the tank in his sight, and started to pull the trigger...

And all hell broke loose.
                                                                            < - >

Lance Corporal Wayne Jackson was witness to what happened next.  From his sniper position, high up in the trees, he could see the Bull stop by the parade ground, and be strafed by the  Hinds.  Now he was watching the massive attack helicopters loop around the woods, one of them sneaking up on the Bull from behind the barracks.  Slowly, it rose up - obviously to line up a missile shot, and there was no way for Jackson to warn the crew of the tank.  

Suddenly, the radar dish, which had started turning slowly stopped, pointing directly at the Hind.  

Then something happened that Jackson could scarcely believe.

 Within seconds, the turret whipped around, almost too fast to follow, and the twin cannons smoothly elevated to match where the radar was pointing.  Even before they had lined up completely, the twin guns opened fire, casting a sickly orange glow over the tank as they hurled rounds at the Hind.
  For a split second, as Jackson watched,  the Bull and its target seemed connected by a streamer of red  light, just like one of those Star Wars films his girlfriend loved.  The Hind seemed held in place for the longest moment, pinned against the sky by the ferocity of that barrage, dozens of vicious explosions bursting along its armoured flanks as the twin Bofors pumped high explosive shells at it - then, with a sudden gout of flame enveloping its right wing, the Hind collapsed on to the parade ground, crumpling like tin foil.

The inside of the Bull's hull resounded to cheers as the Hind went down.  'I told them it would work, I told them!!' crowed Winston, with a fierce grin on his face, he grabbed the headset,  'Lets go Joey, this thing is supposed to be able to fire on the move, so lets make tracks!!'
 They moved off toward the main gate, taking snapshots at any Hinds that flew too close, damaging one sufficiently to drive it away, trailing oily smoke as it retreated to safety.

Jackson shook his head in disbelief: who'd have thought that old crock could do that!




They rumbled down the road to the main gate, dodging the larger debris, until the Bull reached the ruins of the main gate.
Winston, Joey , and Jacobs were silent as they surveyed the destruction, however here and there, surviving troops appeared from foxholes nearby.  Celebrations were short lived though, as a mortar bombardment drove the troops undercover once more.  'You know what happens now - mechanized infantry assault',  guessed Winston.  He wasn't far wrong - soon enough, cannon rounds started ripping up the ground around the machine gun posts.

'Just a sec', grunted Winston, 'Gotta change magazines over' he said , as he yanked down on a selector lever.  Loud clunks could be heard from the ammo bins either side of the cannons, as the feed lines automatically clamped on to different magazines.  And not a moment too soon, as a BMP-1 amphibious tank nosed around the end of the road.
'Back us up into cover Joey - make it fast!!'

The Bull shot back into the cover of the ruined Guardhouse as Joey floored the accelerator, and Winston shouted to Jacobs 'You'll have to fire manually - the radar won't lock onto ground vehicles, use the sights in your cupola!'

Jacobs grabbed the control yoke in front of his station, flicked the fire controls to manual, and peered out through the commanders sight.  Superimposed on the periscope lens, was a simple gunsight, which he layed on the nose of the BMP as it cautiously pushed through the rubble at the gate
 He waited until the first third of the vehicle was around the corner before jamming his fingers down on the twin triggers on his yoke.
 The twin Bofors guns barked into life once again, this time hurling APHE rounds into the BMP  at 450 rpm, riddling the tank with baseball sized holes.  The turret leapt slightly off its track, and thick smoke boiled out every hatch.

Winston was beside himself with glee - he positively radiated fierce pride in his tank.  'Ha ha!  What do you think of that, guys?'
'Nice.'  Came the laconic reply from the drivers seat.

                                                                              < - >

Enemy infantry poured machine gun fire at them from amongst the ruins, an RPG exploded nearby, and once again the cannons spoke their litany of fury...

[PR19_Kit]

I can't see anything wrong with your creative writing skills at all. 

When's the next instalment due?

I just checked my ages old expense claims and I was in Berlin in June '86 and I never saw those darned Hinds or BMPs, I must have been busy.....

[And as a bit of JMN-ism, Potsdam was still part of the DDR in '86, West Berlin stopped at the Potsdammer Brucke, about a mile from where I was working. (JMN mode off)]

[deathjester]

I can't see anything wrong with your creative writing skills at all. 

When's the next instalment due?

I just checked my ages old expense claims and I was in Berlin in June '86 and I never saw those darned Hinds or BMPs, I must have been busy.....

[And as a bit of JMN-ism, Potsdam was still part of the DDR in '86, West Berlin stopped at the Potsdammer Brucke, about a mile from where I was working. (JMN mode off)]

Cheers mate!  The map I was using didn't show the exact border!
Next instalment?  Well, I'll see what I can do!


As for the Hinds - if you missed them, the BMP's, and the tactical nukes, then it must have been one hell of a night out!  Look for an expenses form about three feet long...