M-7 SPAAG - A little help please!!

[PR19_Kit]

Here's a handy Berlin map of the period. The West Berlin - DDR border is the pink line outlined in dark blue. I've noted the locations of the Potsdammer Brucke and the Brit Forces areas for future reference.



ALL my expenses forms from that period were three feet long!  The whole place had an attitude of 'Play now, there may not be a tomorrow.....' 

[ChernayaAkula]

^ Sorry, Kit, but the pink/dark blue border is not the West Berlin/GDR border. I think it's (complete) Berlin's city limits, the border between today's Bundesland Berlin and surrounding Bundesland Brandenburg.

Here's a better map showing the sectors and the Berliner Mauer:

[PR19_Kit]

Well, OK, but in the area that we were discussing it is the effective West Berlin/DDR border............

[ChernayaAkula]

Erm, no. The pink/dark blue border in your map includes both West and East Berlin.

The yellow line in the following map was the (de facto) West Berlin - DDR border. The pink/dark blue border in your map would be the dotted line around all of Berlin (all four sectors) in this map.

[PR19_Kit]

Nonononono, you misunderstand me.

We were talking about the area around Potsdam, the Wannsee, Gatow and Spandau, which is where deathjester's backstory takes place. In that area, on the WEST border between West Berlin and the DDR, my original map is as close as needs be.

My original point was that it was unlikely that deathjester's Brit twin AA tank would have been located in Potsdam, as Potsdam was IN the DDR.

OK now?

[deathjester]

My original point was that it was unlikely that deathjester's Brit twin AA tank would have been located in Potsdam, as Potsdam was IN the DDR.

OK now?

OOPS!
No wonder they were shooting at us!

Is Potsdamme Brucke ok for the story?  I'm confused now (it don't take much...) 

[PR19_Kit]

Potsdammer Brucke means 'Potsdam Brdige', which is the one that actually crosses the border, and its east end is in the American Sector. You can see on ChernayaAkula's 2nd map where the British Sector bounderies were, so it rather depends how far you envisage the DDR forces penetrated in your backstory and where they came from.

You could have your M-7 SPAAG at the west end of the Spandau streets, maybe at the west end of the HeerStrasse, or on the Seegefelder Strasse further to the north. Actually if I was the DDR commander I'd drive down the U Bahn railway line that's in between those two streets.

On the other hand you could make it happen right in the middle of the city as the British Sector went as far east as the Brandenburg Gate, and the Reichstag too. I've seen Saladin ACs driving down the small track between the Reichstag and the River Spree in the 70s and 80s, so that could work just as well.

[coolpop6307]

Can I just say one thing......I am so confused  but the tank looks awesome,I might have to do someting similar. 

[ChernayaAkula]

Nonononono, you misunderstand me.

We were talking about the area around Potsdam, the Wannsee, Gatow and Spandau, which is where deathjester's backstory takes place. In that area, on the WEST border between West Berlin and the DDR, my original map is as close as needs be.

My original point was that it was unlikely that deathjester's Brit twin AA tank would have been located in Potsdam, as Potsdam was IN the DDR.

OK now?

Yeah! Now I got it.  For the Western border around the points you pointed out, the pink/dark blue border is indeed the West Berlin / DDR border. I had just assumed you meant ALL of the pink/dark blue border. That's where I lost you. 

[deathjester]

Can I just say one thing......I am so confused  but the tank looks awesome,I might have to do someting similar. 

Confused too !  Thanks for the comments on the tank - easy to make, and as already mentioned, the turret would look better on a lower, wider hull.  But this one has a certain charm...

Turret consists of plastic card, Games Workshop Ork guns, with aerosol valve parts, and a deflector dish from the Polar Lights Enterprise.

[PR19_Kit]

Can I just say one thing......I am so confused  but the tank looks awesome,I might have to do someting similar. 

You and deathjester both then.  

ChernayaAkula  and I know the place reasonably well, but even in the 70s and 80s when I was there it was a MADHOUSE! Where else would you be likely to see an M-60 tank waiting to cross traffic lights in the middle of the city?  

That's what I could see almost every morning from my apartment window as the US Army took up its positions near to Check Point Charlie.

[rickshaw]

Can I just say one thing......I am so confused  but the tank looks awesome,I might have to do someting similar. 

You and deathjester both then.  

ChernayaAkula  and I know the place reasonably well, but even in the 70s and 80s when I was there it was a MADHOUSE! Where else would you be likely to see an M-60 tank waiting to cross traffic lights in the middle of the city?  

That's what I could see almost every morning from my apartment window as the US Army took up its positions near to Check Point Charlie.

So, you witnessed this, then Kit?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pUmfKX3C04

[PR19_Kit]

So, you witnessed this, then Kit?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pUmfKX3C04

Not exactly that event because it was in '61, the year I left school. 

I lived on the Hohenzollendamm which was an extension  of ClayAlle on which the US Army's headquarters were based. They always had a 2 or 3 vehicle contingent of M60s tucked away around the corner from Checkpoint Charlie and they changed duty twice a day as I recall. The day shift came on at around 0630 and one of the routes to the duty went up ClayAllee and Hohenzollendamm. I didn't need an alarm clock on those mornings I can tell you! There was a cross street that ran across the back of my apartment and crossed the H'damm with some traffic lights right there. If they were red the tanks stopped! 

You could almost FEEL them there through your feet, they made such a din!

As for Checkpoint Charlie itself, I've been there loads of times. I took Mrs PR19 there once, in '84 or so, and she stood on the scaffolding viewing stand and WAVED to the DDR and Soviet guards!!!!! 

The US Army Master Sergeant with us took her arm and gently sheparded her down the stairs, saying 'That's not too advisable M'am. Those guys over there don't think QUITE the same way about waving as we do!' 

No doupt there are piccies of her in some ex-Stasi and ex-KGB files somewehere......... 

[raafif]

Both Brixmis & the US MLM had compounds in Potsdam, East Germany until 1992 (the domestic staff were Stasi "undercover" people).
The M7's turret looks like a prototype of a Shilka variant so maybe it was recovered from a DDR test-range by Brixmis ?

I took Mrs PR19 there once, in '84 or so, and she stood on the scaffolding viewing stand and WAVED to the DDR and Soviet guards!!!!! 

The US Army Master Sergeant with us took her arm and gently sheparded her down the stairs, saying 'That's not too advisable M'am. Those guys over there don't think QUITE the same way about waving as we do!' 

No doupt there are piccies of her in some ex-Stasi and ex-KGB files somewehere......... 

Any photo would be in the Stasi files not KGB, so you can apply to look for any that may have survived

[deathjester]

Almost done chaps!  Just the varnishing now - here's a pic for now, and the rest of the story to follow soon!