V-1710 Question

[KJ_Lesnick]

I remember being told that there were production delays in the V-1710 due to the Great Depression even though the USAAC had ordered the first in the early 30's they weren't testing it until around 1936 or 1937.  What particular factor caused these delays?

[wuzak]

I remember being told that there were production delays in the V-1710 due to the Great Depression even though the USAAC had ordered the first in the early 30's they weren't testing it until around 1936 or 1937.  What particular factor caused these delays?

Funding and size of the design and development team.

Pratt & Whitney and Wright had larger design departments and they had sizeable civil aviation markets to help with funding. Allison relied on military contracts.

[KJ_Lesnick]

wuzak

Funding and size of the design and development team.

Pratt & Whitney and Wright had larger design departments and they had sizeable civil aviation markets to help with funding. Allison relied on military contracts.

So if the military had more contracts that were based on an inline, they would have had a larger development team and so forth?  So if a B-10 derivative was made with V-1710's instead of R-1830's, and the P-35/P-36 were to be powered by inlines they would have had more funding and have been able to produce the engine in sufficient numbers?

[wuzak]

I guess so.

More orders would allow Allison more security and thus be able to hire more engineers. I'm sure if they were in the same situation as Rolls-Royce (with an impending war) they would have found or been given more money.

Allison did a lot of variations on the V-1710, some at the behest of the Army, others for the airframe manufacturers. Things such as remote gearboxes, for pushers and tractors, fuel injection systems, X-3420, V-3420, sea level rated engines, altitude rated engines.

Late in the war Allison were developing a series of turbocompounds. The first, -E27 or, military designation, -127, used a modified turbine from a C series turbocharger (like that in the P-47) and was capable of 2900hp. Unfortunately the turbine couldn't cope with the exhaust temperatures, needing an air-cooled turbine. Allison would not develop the turbine and that engine without orders, so it went nowhere.

[jcf]

Because the bosses at GM were concerned with controlling costs at all of their divisions.

[p51mustang]

V-1710 started its life as a ...... believe it or not........., Air Ship (Zeppelin) engine. Later it was successfully adopted for a/c use but I imagine checkered career of Airships did not help its development phase.

And don't think PW had everything going their way, they were skirting with bankruptcy until large orders came from France. Actually I think Allison was better in shape financially since it was owned by GE and some military orders were virtually guaranteed.

In fact, one of V-710's biggest drawback; lack of effective one or two stage supercharger, could be traced back to its owner GE. GE was very willing to sell its expensive Turbos and probably did not want its small parent company to ruin it with a good supercharger.

If my memory does not betray me, both D520 and Arsenal VG.3? had plans for an Allison. 

[jcf]

Err, Allison was owned by General Motors (GM) not General Electric (GE), and the only V-1710
that didn't have a supercharger was the airship variant. All others had a single-stage, single-speed engine
mounted centrifugal supercharger as standard equipment. The additional turbo-supercharger of the P-38
and additional mechanical superchargers of two-stage engines blew through the engine mounted
supercharger.

Read all about it:

http://www.enginehistory.org/Convention/2009/Presentations/SuperchargingAllison.pdf

[wuzak]

V-1710 started its life as a ...... believe it or not........., Air Ship (Zeppelin) engine. Later it was successfully adopted for a/c use but I imagine checkered career of Airships did not help its development phase.

And don't think PW had everything going their way, they were skirting with bankruptcy until large orders came from France. Actually I think Allison was better in shape financially since it was owned by GE and some military orders were virtually guaranteed.

In fact, one of V-710's biggest drawback; lack of effective one or two stage supercharger, could be traced back to its owner GE. GE was very willing to sell its expensive Turbos and probably did not want its small parent company to ruin it with a good supercharger.

If my memory does not betray me, both D520 and Arsenal VG.3? had plans for an Allison. 

As Jon says, GM owned Allison, not GE.

GE provided supercharger impellers to Allison, Wright and Pratt & Whitney until each figured out that they could do a better job themselves.

[wagnersm]

Err, Allison was owned by General Motors (GM) not General Electric (GE), and the only V-1710
that didn't have a supercharger was the airship variant. All others had a single-stage, single-speed engine
mounted centrifugal supercharger as standard equipment. The additional turbo-supercharger of the P-38
and additional mechanical superchargers of two-stage engines blew through the engine mounted
supercharger.

Read all about it:

http://www.enginehistory.org/Convention/2009/Presentations/SuperchargingAllison.pdf

Thank you for sharing that.  The V-1710 Allison has always been one of my favorite engines, and I am very interested in information like this.

Again, thank you for sharing.

Steve

[p51mustang]

I stand corrected!

Thanks

[NARSES2]

I stand corrected!

Thanks

Just look at it as "having your knowledge threshhold pushed farther upwards" that's what I do 

[p51mustang]

So true!

It also reminds me what a toddler, a pregnant wife, a cat and a dog can do to my sleep, thinking power and memory! LOL

It's all good. I'd rather be corrected than remember things wrong  Hey I got the Airship part right!!