USS Boxer LPH-4 ca 1990- Input requested.... PICS UP!!!!

SigfanUSAF · July 11, 2012, 02:11:30 PM

18Jun67- USS Tripoli attacked by NVA gunboats, severely damaged and subsequently sank under tow to the Philippines. A little over a week later, on 27Jun, USS Iwo Jima hit a mine in Vietnamese waters and was sunk with heavy loss of life.

These two incidents hit the USN amphibious force hard, and the Boxer, Princeton & Valley Forge continued in their LPH roles until 1978-9. In 1981 it was proposed to congress to reactivate the USS Boxer in a stop-gap measure to build up the fleet. She underwent an SLEP from 82-83, and served throughout the Gulf conflict in 1991.

Yep, far fetched. I'm converting Trumpeters 1/350 Hancock into the Boxer. As far as a "low budget" overhaul it'll have its 5" guns landed, replaced with CIWS and Sea Sparrow. Electronics will be upgraded to that of the Tarawa Class, and living quarters brought up to 1980s standards.

Now, I love the look of the Essex class, but model 1989-91. My initial thought is to depict the Boxer with the forementioned upgrades. But a nagging thought to add a Hurricane Bow and Tarawa style Island keep popping into mind. Thoughts?

Cliffy B · July 11, 2012, 03:32:42 PM

How exactly are gunboats going to damage an LPH enough to cause her to sink under tow? She'd need to eat some fish or missiles or A LOT of shells far larger than a gunboat brings to the table. those things didn't carry anything larger than 25-30mms.

You said they remained operational until 1978-1979. If they were to be SLEPed then they would have proposed doing so before they were mothballed as was done in real life. If you have access to Friedman's Carrier book, he talks about a proposed post-Vietnam refit of the Essex LPHs that would of been performed had they not been deemed to long in the tooth and cost ineffective. The LPH-2s were much better equipped for the role even given their smaller size. The manpower requirements were also a big problem at that time, the Essex needing something around 1,100 just to run the ship while the LPH-2s only needed about 650. Having several amphibs get knocked out/sunk though could justify the expenditure however. I can get you a scan of the relevant pages; they're no drawing but the description is straight forward.

If you've ever seen photos of the carriers being modernized you get to see how exactly they did the hurricane bows. Basically they cut off a huge chunk of the bow and welded on a prefabbed hurricane bow. If you're going for a low budget overhaul I doubt they'd bother making such a modification and if they did, they'd cut one off of a mothballed sister rather than making a new one. If low budget is the key then limit your mods to the bare essentials.

Just some thoughts and things to keep in mind man. Glad to see another naval whiffer here; we're too few a group

SigfanUSAF · July 11, 2012, 03:37:47 PM

OK, I guess NVN P4 torpedo boats would make more sense!

I've seen the Essex modernization pics, and I agree with you. That's why I'm more leaning toward the KISS concept on this.

I'd love tose scans if not too much trouble, I'll PM my email address- thanks!!

Cliffy B · July 11, 2012, 04:36:14 PM

E-mail sent! OK I was off about the real life SLEP proposal. The mods I was thinking about were what the USN and USMC wanted to do to the ships originally when they converted them to LPHs, not later. The ambition and costly ideas were scaled back significantly due to the ships' ages and money and focused instead on improving maintenance and reducing crew size and stayed away from anything costly. Once Vietnam was over/winding down they were deemed surplus and too old to be worth keeping, plus the LPH-2s were finally commissioned so they were axed.

So the amphib fleet would need to take a serious hit to justify their retention. I'd say the USN would bring them in for the original proposal as soon as possible and then upgrade them on par with the rest of the amphib fleet after Vietnam.

Look at the LPH-2s and LHAs for electronics and weapons ideas and note the dates certain systems showed up and how many. Most of them got Mk-25 Sea Sparrow (early version, not very effective and a big boxy launcher built from ASROC launchers) in the 1970's but Phalanx didn't show up until the late 1980's and none of them got more than 2 of each (some only one for a very long time or their entire lives). You might want to add some 3"/50s (possibly in their weather shields) and their Mk-56 directors as par with the rest of the amphib fleet in lieu of the 5"/38s. Upgrade the electronics to a blend of LPH-2 and LHA-1 and you'd have a convincing build.

Just my thoughts. I don't know how far away from reality you want to go with this.

Thorvic · July 11, 2012, 10:21:26 PM

You don't need to over worry about the back story and more focus on the conversions and timeframe to make it plausible, a simple cop out may be to have an Essex converted to LPH or possibly as a STOVL carrier for an export customer.

So you could get the Hurricane bow fitted, the wooden flight deck replaced by aluminium planking but i doubt the Island would be rebuilt akin to a Tarwara, but the existing Island would likley be modernised with a new revised sensor suite and possibly rebuilt bridge and flyco positions.

G

SigfanUSAF · July 12, 2012, 04:38:24 PM

Cliffy B thanks for the scans!!!

I'm opting against the major mods- she'll keep the traditional lines of a true Essex into the 1990s;)

SigfanUSAF · July 14, 2012, 09:30:03 AM

LPH-4 circa 1990.

This is what happens when you buy a Tamiya CVN65 for spare parts. It will get a flight control station where the 40mm mount was between the island and turret #3s previous location. The stern will have a centerline CIWS mounted (you can see the mount in the pics). It's got a single Sea Sparrow launcher, and a port and starboard director for it. Forward elevator is de-activated, port hanger door enlarged......

Yes, I realize the forward CIWS is gonna be wet

Cliffy B · July 14, 2012, 12:41:05 PM

Very nice, very nice!!!

Just move the forward Phalanx to the forward port 5" sponson and put the after Phalanx on the starboard side of the stern tubs and you'll be fine. Phalanx would not do well at all on the bow and would amount to nothing more than a very expensive hood ornament

You could always put another one on the starboard side of the island like they did on the CVs.

sandiego89 · July 14, 2012, 03:33:37 PM

Fantasitc- really like the concept and build! Like the early prototype painted MV-22- needs more aircraft! OV-10 would be a good fit on there as well.

Joe C-P · July 14, 2012, 07:00:14 PM

That's a very interesting result.

NARSES2 · July 15, 2012, 01:31:52 AM

Looking good to me

Weaver · July 15, 2012, 08:16:24 AM

Nice job!

I think they'd probably remove the old 40mm tubs when they fit the Phalanx though...

Quote from: Cliffy B on July 14, 2012, 12:41:05 PM
Very nice, very nice!!!

Just move the forward Phalanx to the forward port 5" sponson and put the after Phalanx on the starboard side of the stern tubs and you'll be fine. Phalanx would not do well at all on the bow and would amount to nothing more than a very expensive hood ornament

You could always put another one on the starboard side of the island like they did on the CVs.

The British Harrier-carriers and the LPH Ocean all have Phalanx or Goalkeeper in exactly that position, and it seems to do okay.

SigfanUSAF · July 15, 2012, 10:40:19 AM

My two Amphibs

SigfanUSAF · July 15, 2012, 10:43:47 AM

Quote from: Weaver on July 15, 2012, 08:16:24 AM
Nice job!

I think they'd probably remove the old 40mm tubs when they fit the Phalanx though...

Quote from: Cliffy B on July 14, 2012, 12:41:05 PM
Very nice, very nice!!!

Just move the forward Phalanx to the forward port 5" sponson and put the after Phalanx on the starboard side of the stern tubs and you'll be fine. Phalanx would not do well at all on the bow and would amount to nothing more than a very expensive hood ornament

You could always put another one on the starboard side of the island like they did on the CVs.

The British Harrier-carriers and the LPH Ocean all have Phalanx or Goalkeeper in exactly that position, and it seems to do okay.

I do like the looks of the Phalanx in the forward position........in the WHIF world, sometimes function follows form

PR19_Kit · July 15, 2012, 10:52:59 AM

On the Invincibles the Goalkeeper/Phalanx (how do you tell the difference?) is offset to starboard of the flight deck, or they were before the RN moved them to get more parking space AFAIK. The Ocean only operates helicopters (We don't have any Harriers left anyway.....

) so they can put the CIWS right in the bows.