Amphib Assault Ship as Hospital Ship?

poru48 · July 15, 2012, 05:52:49 PM

OK first post here.
I am a plankowner of the Kearsarge and I really like this idea. The problem with the design is that the support spaces and berthing spaces for the airwing are right below the flight deck and the hospital is the level below that. The ramp from the flight deck to the hangar deck has a large hatch at the hospital level but the angle of the ramp is so steep that I would not want to try to rapidly moving litter patients. There are weapons elevators from the below decks magazines to the hangar and flight decks and an adittional elevator from the hangar to the flight deck that can be accessed in the hospital. The vehicle decks are designed to efficiently move between the lower and uppper vehicle decks, the well deck, the hangar deck, and the flight deck.
My suggestion for this idea would be to add a conveyor system to the ramp (sort of like the power chairs for the elderly that are installed on home stairways) to safely transport intake to the hospital. The conveyor system would have to fold flat in the event that cargo needed to move from the vehicle decks to the flight deck. I would add an additional elevator or two to tranport patients from the hospital to the main deck berthing areas that I would convert to recovery wards. In practice the two deck edge elevators can be used for mass movement of non-medical casualties as well as equipment and aircraft.
I would keep the well deck because I would convert the landing craft to secondary medical facilities (think M.A.S.H.) and power and water filtration plants. The scenarios where this ship would be used would most likely include disaster recovery. The biggest addition I see needed to the exterior of the ship is portable causeways ALA the Newport class and additional small boats. The causeways solve the problem of damaged/destroyed port facilities and the extra boats are obvious because the Kearsarge only carries two RHIB's. Maintain the two magazines because they are perfect climate controlled storage for for medical and relief supplies.
Overall, I would say the volume, layout, and inherent capabilities of the Kearsage would make it an excellent disaster recovery vessel. I would maintain the full air traffic control facilities because that was one of the early problems with Haiti. The one are that I defer to the experts is power. The ship is steam-turbine powered with two emergency diesel generators. This seems like a perfect mini-powerplant for a disaster area. Some would advocate for gas turbine propulsion or even nuke but these choices would require serious modification to the ship. My theory is keep it simple but I'm sure somewhere out there is a different outlook.
I reallly enjoyed this what if exercise and hope that my input adds to the discussion.

kerick · July 15, 2012, 06:40:09 PM

Welcome to whif world! Great input on this subject. Nothing better than a person who has been there.
Here's a site with good descriptions of modifications done to civilian ships used in the Falklands crises.
http://www.nickmessinger.co.uk/falklands.html

seadude · July 15, 2012, 07:31:18 PM

I don't plan on adding any detail to the well deck since it's so hidden and you can't see much in there anyway. I'll remove the weapon systems in front of the superstructure and may put a cargo handling crane in that area. The ship could probably use more lifeboats instead of life raft canisters, but I don't have any extra lifeboats in my spares box. The two aircraft elevators will probably be left as is. What I could really use advice on is the radar and electronics suite. What should I add/remove from the radar masts?
There are some diagrams at the bottom of this page:
http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/navy/amphibiousassault/lhd1Wasp.html

NARSES2 · July 16, 2012, 07:14:56 AM

Quote from: Weaver on July 15, 2012, 05:45:48 PM
they fixed this by building the new superstructure elements from very thick steel to make them heavy, and by inverting the ship's hatch covers and filling them with concrete. All of this stuff adds the weight of a full container load without taking up the volume of it, thus re-balancing the ship.

Why does that seem a peculiarly British way of fixing a problem ?

PR19_Kit · July 16, 2012, 09:34:03 AM

Quote from: NARSES2 on July 16, 2012, 07:14:56 AM
Quote from: Weaver on July 15, 2012, 05:45:48 PM
they fixed this by building the new superstructure elements from very thick steel to make them heavy, and by inverting the ship's hatch covers and filling them with concrete. All of this stuff adds the weight of a full container load without taking up the volume of it, thus re-balancing the ship.

Why does that seem a peculiarly British way of foxing a problem ?

Because that's EXACTLY what it is! Anyone else would have installed a zillion tons of ballast in the bilges, as it is they probably have an effectively armoured hospital ship with a totally impregnable deck!

kerick · July 16, 2012, 03:19:42 PM

Wouldn't this make the ship a little top heavy? I would think you would want the weight as low in the ship as possible and not in the superstructure.

PR19_Kit · July 16, 2012, 07:18:30 PM

Remember that as the Contender Bezant she would have had many tiers and row of containers on what became her flight deck. All the RN did was re-apply this weight in the same place.

(Piccie filched from eBid)

kerick · July 16, 2012, 08:06:38 PM

Lots of whif potential as retired amphib or converted civilian ship. So who else is going to take this on?

Cliffy B · July 16, 2012, 08:21:03 PM

For those that want to scratch build and do something a bit less modern here are plans for the USS Fort Mandan (LSD-21) circa 1951. The class was commissioned near the end of the war and decommissioned between 1969-1970. A 1970's era hospital conversion could be neat.

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/lsd21.pdf

For those preferring something smaller check out the venerable LSM. A plethora were built and continued to serve many countries after the USN was through with them. Some were converted to hospital ships for riverine forces. I'm thinking a heavily modified version would work wonders in say Indonesia or anywhere else in that area. A mobile hospital (maybe UN, WHO, etc...) traveling around the rivers and coastal regions.

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/lsm354.pdf

There's also the ever present LST-542 class (several hundred strong) that survived through the 1980's and beyond in other countries' navies. The top deck could easily take a flight deck and small hangar for Hueys or similar helos (and many were converted as such).

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/lst983.pdf

Just some ideas! The LSM and LST are available in resin 1/350 (Iron shipwrights) and the LST in plastic 1/700 (although its OOP; Skywave).

kerick · July 17, 2012, 09:57:25 AM

These are good ideas. A smaller ship may be able to get closer to a devistated area than a larger, deep draft ship. Smaller might allow for more than one ship to respond to more than one area at a time.
A more modern container style ship would allow a more cost effective powerplant and allow you to build a custom interior to fit your needs. Hospital, relief supply storage, fuel for onshore vehicles, maybe an electrical generating plant, flight deck, ro-ro loading and unloading, lots of stuff to think about. This could build into a small fleet!

Hobbes · July 17, 2012, 11:07:18 AM

Hmm, a modified Colombo Express. That'd be quite the relief effort!

sandiego89 · July 17, 2012, 12:13:36 PM

Quote from: JoeP on July 15, 2012, 02:18:30 PM
Port facilities are not always available, hence the advantage of the flight deck and well deck, and then landing craft will allow support of unimproved facilities, plus bringing vehicles ashore; the LHAs/LHDs have dedicated vehicle spaces.
The hangar would still be needed for maintenance on the helicopters. The entire flight deck would not be needed, so more equipment could be on deck.

Great idea! Agree on keeping the well deck. For the Haiti earthquake, the port was devastated and over the shore logistics were required. Landing craft were used extensively. A ro-ro ramp is a good idea if a port is available. or to offload to other ships or causeways. Starboard side. Agree on adding a large crane.

As for the sensors, suggest retaining the large air search radars that came with the kit- either SPS-48E or SPS-52, as controlling airspace is important. This is the flat "billboard" radar. Also keep the AN/SPS 49, and 43 radars, these are the more traditional concave shaped radar aft on the island. Add lots of SATCOM dishes or domes.

Joe C-P · July 17, 2012, 07:04:58 PM

If I had the time I'd say Group Build.

Wait, I have a 1/600 LSM. I was planning to build it as USS Raritan, but it's really too small for a proper display piece, but it's fine for a whif. And I have containers, and maybe some small vehicles. Just need white paint, red striping and green crosses!

kerick · July 17, 2012, 09:14:36 PM

Quote from: Hobbes on July 17, 2012, 11:07:18 AM
Hmm, a modified Colombo Express. That'd be quite the relief effort!

I looked at that kit, at about $38 depending where I looked. That was a little steep just to start cutting on. Would be impressive.... If I could find one for maybe $20 I'd think about it.
I did a little checking and the Columbo Express is a few feet longer than the USS Nimitz. That would be a lot of disaster relief!!

PR19_Kit · July 18, 2012, 03:59:42 AM

Quote from: kerick on July 17, 2012, 09:14:36 PM
Quote from: Hobbes on July 17, 2012, 11:07:18 AM
Hmm, a modified Colombo Express. That'd be quite the relief effort!
I looked at that kit, at about $38 depending where I looked. That was a little steep just to start cutting on. Would be impressive.... If I could find one for maybe $20 I'd think about it.
I did a little checking and the Columbo Express is a few feet longer than the USS Nimitz. That would be a lot of disaster relief!!

I've got that kit, it's HUGE!

There are ZILLIONS of containers to assemble and paint as well, and that's pretty mind numbing. I got it as a source for my long term plans for a 1/700 'Atlantic Conveyor' but I'll have enough containers to build about 1000 ACs!