1/350 scale USS Solace LHD Amphibious Hospital Ship

[PR19_Kit]

I'm currently reading a book on the battle for Papua New Guinea & the medical personnel (including stretcher bearers) were not armed. Unfortunately, most, if not all, of the medical personnel & wounded left behind, unarmed in accordance with the GC's, who were found by the Japanese were tortured &/or murdered.

The WWII Japanese took no notice whatsoever about the GC as far as I could see. My uncle, a Major in the 3rd Carbineers with flame throwing Lees and Grants, had no compunction in also ignoring the GC when it came to cooking them........

[Old Wombat]

I'm currently reading a book on the battle for Papua New Guinea & the medical personnel (including stretcher bearers) were not armed. Unfortunately, most, if not all, of the medical personnel & wounded left behind, unarmed in accordance with the GC's, who were found by the Japanese were tortured &/or murdered.

The WWII Japanese took no notice whatsoever about the GC as far as I could see. My uncle, a Major in the 3rd Carbineers with flame throwing Lees and Grants, had no compunction in also ignoring the GC when it came to cooking them........

One reaps what one sows... but, then, the Japanese didn't expect any quarter to begin with & gave none, in accordance with their own codes of war.

Isurava was the last place the Australians left their wounded for their enemy to care for, thereafter they tried to take them with them. If, for some reason, they couldn't (eg: they were starving & needed to move faster) they would leave them near a food supply & try to get a rescue team back to them. Unfortunately the Japanese found far too many of them.

In an earlier post somewhere, I had made the suggestion of putting extra boats and cranes at the rear of the LHD above the well deck gate where the Phalanx's and Seasparrow launcher originally are. But Old Wombat mentioned this would probably be a bad idea.
The below picture was my original idea. But if I don't put boats there, then what? Anybody got ideas for what I should use the back end for?

I'd suggest mounts for 2 x Phalanx systems (or Goalkeeper) but not the systems themselves (see my earlier post) &, possibly, the NIXIE system (I don't actually know how this system is deployed, so I could be way off the mark here) &/or a chaff launching system.



Guy

[seadude]

I'd suggest mounts for 2 x Phalanx systems (or Goalkeeper) but not the systems themselves (see my earlier post) &, possibly, the NIXIE system (I don't actually know how this system is deployed, so I could be way off the mark here) &/or a chaff launching system.

I'm still having second thoughts about that. Nice, but.......I don't know. I'm still trying to think of other options.

[seadude]

Another question:

Is it just the starboard side only that amphibious ships refuel during underway replenishment, or can they also be refueled on the port side too?
http://www.msc.navy.mil/sealift/2012/April/images/byrd.jpg
The cutout that the refueling hoses are going into the Makin Island LHD on the left are presumeably (?) for aviation fuel and/or other liquids. The larger hull cutout behind it I'm guessing is for other underway replenishment items? The next smaller hull cutout behind that is also for underway replenishment of aviation fuel and/or other liquids.
http://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/ESG7/PublishingImages/090621-N-9950J-120sm.jpg

Also, what are the row of open hatches for on the left of this picture? The port side of LHD's also has a similar row of hatches.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/US_Navy_060205-N-4772B-126_The_amphibious_dock_landing_ship_USS_Harpers_Ferry_%28LSD_49%29_Sailors_tend_a_station_to_station_phone_line_with_the_amphibious_assault_ship_USS_Essex_%28LHD_2%29,_during_a_scheduled_underway_replenishment_%28.jpg

[rickshaw]

On the pictures of the boats being hoisted.  The knotted ropes are interesting.  I assume they are intended to be some form of safety line for the crew (who are all shown holding them) in case the hoist cable breaks.  I assume that if the boat drops, they're still hanging on for dear life and so (in theory) won't get hurt by falling.

I'd also think most casualties would arrive on your hospital ship by either chopper or landing craft in the well deck.  That way you'd only need a small number of boats.  If it's urgent case, they'd arrive by chopper, less urgent, you could bring them onboard en mass on the decks of landing craft.

[sandiego89]

To hopefully clear up a few things on this thread, I offer the following.

There is a huge difference in international conventions between fixed armament and hand held weapons- although a wide intrepreation may call everything "armament". If you are building a true hospital ship and want to keep it realistic to international conventions, you should not mount any weapons/armament that are fixed to the hull (20mm, CIWS/goalkeeper, missile launchers etc.)  Chaff OK. 

I do not believe the the USA is breaking the rules by just having the provision for an armory on such a ship. Having the capabilty to have an armory carrying long weapons such as side arms, flares, assault rifles, grenade launchers, or crew served weapons is prudent.  These are purely defensive- although I recognize not all will agree with this view as some consider any weapon as potentially offensive.  There are situations where force protection is required such as in piracy areas or disaster relief/humanitarian assistance and force protection is required.  Even people you are trying to help may not see it that way- like when handing out food and a riot breaks out.  This has been a real concern in recent humanitarian situations including tsunami responses, hurricanes and earthquakes.  I think you will find that the "armory" may just be a secured container on the main deck with ready access to the force protection crews. The US Navy will work closely with the host nation and have a clear policy on weapons carriage for each mission.  Weapons can be secured in the armory is such places that forbid the carrying or display of weapons. 

This is similar to the antarctic treaty, where fixed weapons are not allowed by treaty, but long weapons (hand carried) may be OK.  There have been cases where governemt owned ships such as icebreakers have had to have their fixed armament removed for legal operations in such waters. These ship may still carry small arms for force protection.

As for refueling, US Navy aircraft carriers and flat deck amphibiuos assualt ships (LHA/LHD) will refuel from their starboard side.  The conning tower/bridge is on the starboard side, and they are desiged to take fuel and stores from that side.  Some of the "hatches" you mention are merely "air castles" which are open deck areas for passageways, line handling, boat acces, etc. 

Rickshaw, yes the knots in the ropes hanging from the davits above the small boats is very standard practice.  Crews should be hanging onto the ropes in case there is an inadvertant relase of the shackle holding the boat to the davit.   

[rickshaw]

Under the Geneva Conventions, medical personnel are allowed to carry light weapons for their own personal defence and more importantly the defence of their patients.   Experience from WWII taught that without them, massacres were able to occur, particularly against non-Western enemies.   The Japanese did that in several hospitals in Hong Kong and Singapore which was very dishonourable for them IMO.   In my time in the Army I used to train with an Army General Hospital and Field Ambulance and they were very keen to make sure that their members were familiar with small arms up to and including LMGs.  They were all taught the horror stories of what was found on the Kokoda Track where field clearing stations had been over-run.  Speaking to them, they were determined to make sure there was no repeat of patients being used for bayonet practice. 

[Old Wombat]

Under the Geneva Conventions, medical personnel are allowed to carry light weapons for their own personal defence and more importantly the defence of their patients.   Experience from WWII taught that without them, massacres were able to occur, particularly against non-Western enemies.   The Japanese did that in several hospitals in Hong Kong and Singapore which was very dishonourable for them IMO.   In my time in the Army I used to train with an Army General Hospital and Field Ambulance and they were very keen to make sure that their members were familiar with small arms up to and including LMGs.  They were all taught the horror stories of what was found on the Kokoda Track where field clearing stations had been over-run.  Speaking to them, they were determined to make sure there was no repeat of patients being used for bayonet practice. 

Was unaware of those changes to the GC's (not that I've actually studied them in anything other than a cursory manner). Thanks for bringing me up to date!



Guy

[seadude]

Small question:

Most life raft canisters on ships are painted white, except for those on military vessels which are usually light gray or the same color as the navy ship's hull. Would it look too awkward if I painted my LHD's life raft canisters orange to make them more noticeable and not blend in too much with a white painted hull? Lifeboats are generally orange painted. Why not life raft canisters?

[Old Wombat]

I can only find pic's of white l-b cannisters on non-mil ships but I can't see any reason why the cannisters couldn't be painted orange (or possibly yellow?) for quick identification by non-crew members. I think white was chosen to minimise sun damage to the plastics of the cannisters, as it reflects light better than other colours.



Guy

[Captain Canada]

Some of those open-air hatches would be good for a jet-ski......they could be lowered by a single point and easily dropped/retrieved

[seadude]

I'd also think most casualties would arrive on your hospital ship by either chopper or landing craft in the well deck.  That way you'd only need a small number of boats.  If it's urgent case, they'd arrive by chopper, less urgent, you could bring them onboard en mass on the decks of landing craft.

@rickshaw:  I already explained this earlier to everyone, but if not, I'll explain it again:  Using the flight deck, well deck, copters, LCAC's and other landing craft is great for MASS recieving of casualties and/or cargo. But if the flight deck is fouled up, or something happens in the well deck, and patients cannot be recieved via those two options, then using smaller boats docked alongside the hull is the only option left. What if copters or large landing craft can't get to or close enough to an area? Sometimes, it just pays to have smaller boats handy for backup or getting in areas where LCAC's can't go. And the numerous smaller boats will do double duty as lifeboats too for crew and/or patient evacuation.

Question:  I'm a bit undecided on detailing and painting the hangar deck and the well deck. Once those areas are glued, and covered up, you won't see much, if anything in those areas. IDK. Should I detail and paint those two interiors, or should I just forget it?

[seadude]

Taking early suggestions on modifying the kit's two LCAC's for mass patient transporting. A normal LCAC looks like the pic below. If a normal LCAC were transporting patients, the patients would get wet and dirty by the big fans kicking up seaspray and sand every time the LCAC was landing on the beach and/or traveling on the sea. I need ideas to modify the middle flat deck with some type of enclosure for transporting patients. Any suggestions?

[sandiego89]

LCAC seating is quite limited, but this has already been resolved in the real world.  The US Navy uses pre-fab personel transport modules laid out on the main deck of the LCAC.  http://www.flickr.com/photos/usnavy/7068060029/

I would recommned a few 20 foot containers laid on the LCAC well.  Imagine a few 20 fot containers, with doors and a few windows.  The containers could be easily removed allowing the LCAC to resume vehicle delivery.  Very easy to simulate in  1/350 with some rectangular evergreen sections. 

[Mossie]

I would recommned a few 20 foot containers laid on the LCAC well.  Imagine a few 20 fot containers, with doors and a few windows.  The containers could be easily removed allowing the LCAC to resume vehicle delivery.  Very easy to simulate in  1/350 with some rectangular evergreen sections. 

Like this:
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/field/zms/zms3.html

Scroll along on the picture bar underneath, there's another option that might be useful, an expandable shelter that collapses into a standard container sized frame