British Super Recon Phantom

[sandiegobrit]

I just got an old Revell 1979 RAF phantom II (1/48) for 10 bucks  and was considering doing a what if based on the planned US-Israeli super phantom RF-4X
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandiegobrit/7865368780/in/photostream

it strikes me that the good old RAF was missing a recon plane like the mach 3 phantom

mods planned include

add intake coolant tanks
delete weapons including forward sidewinders to be filled over
rear sidewinders to be converted to flair/chaff ejectors
extend nose (keep RAF radome)
light grey low viz paint scheme like late service RAF phantoms
integral recon pod on centreline  (not sure if this is needed as well as nose extension)
maybe delete arrestor hook

any opinions, points of view info that could help?

Steve

[PR19_Kit]

If you're going to keep the radar nose there won't be any room for a big camera in there, specially not one as big as the HIAC that the F-4X carried.

The USAF squeezed a HIAC into an underfuselage pod that looked a lot like a swollen version of the EMI pod the RAF used for the inital tests, but the IDF, the customer for the F-4X, found it limited the performance far too much for their liking.

[TallEng]

May I suggest the World Air Power book McDonnell F-4 Phantom 'spirit in the skies' ISBN 1 874023 28 X it's got some information on the F-4E(S) including a side view showing the HIAC-1 LOROP camera installation in the nose (apparently three were built for the Israelis)

Regards
Keith

[sandiegobrit]

I was thinking that a one inch nose ( 48 inch on the full size aircraft ) extension would allow for a camera instillation and that the standard radar would be removed or replaced by a smaller simpler system because a full system would be pretty redundant without any armament on this recon only bird.

I also like the looks of the modified air intakes but think that they might be beyond my skills.
the Revell kit comes without the phantoms signature drop tanks but i think this isn't too much of a problem because surely they generated a lot of drag and might have generated more drag and limited range more than the range increase of the fuel inside on a high speed design.

The Spey engine was certainly capable of generating more thrust and by the late 70's early 80's improved 3d airfoils, materials and turbine cooling improvements would have made this quite easy for RR to pull off.

Thanks for all the help and i'll post pics of the build...I hope i am not using up a valuable collectors kit ! from what i have seen its a pretty basic kit.

[PR19_Kit]

The three F-4E(S)s apparently flew most of their operational missions with at least one overload tank and sometimes all three. The tank's fuel was all used first and the tanks jettisoned before their 'over the target' dash.

'Israeli Phantoms V 2.0' has BUCKETS of information on the F-4X/F-4E(S) projects, 25 pages even, including numerous photos and diagrams of the various camera installations used.

[Gondor]

'Israeli Phantoms V 2.0' has BUCKETS of information on the F-4X/F-4E(S) projects, 25 pages even, including numerous photos and diagrams of the various camera installations used.

Do you have more information on that book please Kit as it sounds ideal for one of my planned projects

Gondor

[PR19_Kit]

How much do you need? I'm looking at it right now. 

The title you have already, but it's sub-titled 'The Kurnass in IDF/AF Service, 1989 till today' and the authors are Andreas Klein and Shlomo Aloni, it's published by Double Ugly books and the ISBN no. is 978-3-935687-82-9.

I got my copy at Telford a year or so ago and I had it signed by Brig. Gen. Amir Nachumi, who's mentioned more than once in the book.   

[Gondor]

How much do you need? I'm looking at it right now. 

The title you have already, but it's sub-titled 'The Kurnass in IDF/AF Service, 1989 till today' and the authors are Andreas Klein and Shlomo Aloni, it's published by Double Ugly books and the ISBN no. is 978-3-935687-82-9.

I got my copy at Telford a year or so ago and I had it signed by Brig. Gen. Amir Nachumi, who's mentioned more than once in the book.   

Ah, those books, and that must have been 2009 as I saw him signing the books which I thought were a little too pricey for my pocket at the time.

Gondor

[PR19_Kit]

They certainly weren't cheap but when I had a glance though and found OODLES of stuff on the F-4E(S) I just had to get it.  

Here's my umpteen years old project of the F-4E(S) together with the G-139 pod as well, both conversions in one kit from Twelve Squared, but I'm not sure if they're still going. It looks like the IDF actually trialled the G-139 but rejected it due to the performance limitations. Oddly the only one on public view is in the IDF Museum!

[kerick]

What a shnazola! Nick named the Jimmy Durante by the crews? That pod was huge too.

[PR19_Kit]

Being Israelis they called it a 'Tsalam Shablul'...........

I can't even pronounce it, let alone translate it!

The HIAC camera was the one that GD built to go into the RB-57F, but was subsequently shrunk and lightened enough to squeeze into the pod and the nose of the F-4E. Interestingly the lighter version was sometimes carried by the RAF Canberra PR9s over Afghanistan until they left service in 2006.

[Gondor]

The RF-4E(S) nose that I have is from Eagle Designs and is a solid resin nose

Not sure when I will start work on the conversion again as I have enough on my plate as it is


Gondor

[sandiegobrit]

I was just reviewing the contents of the kit and found that there are a couple of extra parts such as J79 nozzles as well as the Spey ones, but more interesting are both the typical big RAF radome and a RF-4 type nose extention and radome.



i feel like using the alternate nose for this recon bird and keep the big RAF dome for another project in the pipeline
One thing annoys me, boy is the cockpit basic, I was going to do an open canopy model but i think it will be sealed shut.

by the way its been a while since i realy spent time building a plastic kit what is the best filler....milliput?

[kerick]

The two parts to the left look like the F-4E nose with the gun muzzle molded on.

[sandiegobrit]

yep they look like that to me as well..
i am going to mod them to make my camera nose

i was thinking of using the RAF radome on my F105g to make an RAF F105g