A little help please?

[Go4fun]

I am in the process of writing a book about a "WhatIf" war involving a military coop in the USA, the American forces under the "Renegade Generals attacking into Candada, and the UK throwing in to do their bit to bring peace thru firepower.
My book centers on a small force of Army National Guard troops deciding to defend their homes from the 'Security Forces' and I am to the point of having some British/Canadian fighter/fighter-bomber aircraft do a dash into northeast Kansas to engage AH-1 Cobras in the area. This raises several question you may help me with.
*Would Tornados or BAE Lightnings have the 'legs' to reach the area and return to Canada safely?
*Which of these two aircraft would most likely be used?
*Would other aircraft be used seeing as there are enemy armored personnel carriers and small field bases in the area to engage?
Any help with these questions or suggestions from the aviation minded here woul be much appriciated. 

[deathjester]

Tornados, as the UK Lightnings never had ground attack capability, nor the range for what you want.

Depends on the timeframe, you might get some Bucccaneers in there too.

[PR19_Kit]

The Lightning always had very 'short legs', even the F6s with overwing tanks it could only manage about 800 miles, and at speed it was less than 200! Plus it only carried two IR Red Tops normally, and if the twin 30 mm cannon were installed they ate into the fuel capacity too. The RAF Lightnings couldn't carry any underwing stores although the export Saudi and Kuwait F53 versions had twin weapons pylons under each wing.

The Tornado on the other hand has over twice the Lightning's range and has its 27mm  cannon permanently installed, not to mention a vast number of weapon pylons to carry all sorts of ordnance.

No contest really.  

[Rheged]

An interesting concept.

The Lightning is really a point defence interceptor, without the "legs"  to reach deep into opposition territory  so the Tornado is a better strike aircraft........but you'd  do even better with Buccaneer S2's  that can come in closer to the ground than a snake's belly.   The Lightning has a 0 to 70.000  feet time that's still in the Premier League  if Canada needs to stop high fliers.

Ultra high flying Canberras would provide a remarkable recon capability  unless Kit feels that the PR19 could contribute  here.

I'm not sure   how the Vulcan and Victor force would be involved, possibly the "big  stick"  held in reserve  to comprehensively  spank anyone who stepped too far out of line.

The Shackleton or Nimrod force is extremely versatile  and I'm sure would be used somewhere.

A great deal depends on the exact date of this unfortunate series of events.

I'm sure that the rest of the forum will have more and probably better  ideas to contribute

[pyro-manic]

What about Harriers? Good ground attack, guns (provided you're not talking the latest ones) for Cobra-bashing, and interesting. Have them stop off en-route or on the way home to refuel covertly landing in a car park or something to meet a tanker?

Jaguars are cool too, though the range/payload equation might not balance out very well.

[Go4fun]

  I completely forgot the good ol Harrier. Seeing as to their great choice of make-do landing areas and the range-to-target-area of about 700 miles they are perfect!
And I forgot to incude the time frame of this story as October 1991.  
As for Shackletons, Nimrods and other birds of war, I will look into it.
Thank you very much and if this ever hits the book shelves I will be sure to mention you all as technical contributers.

[Mr.Creak]

Harriers might well be a better choice than Tornado (or Lightning) versus Huey Cobras.
I don't have the copy to hand of Defence Helicopter Magazine (nor the papers of the Fighter Helicopter Conference they published (1)) but Scott, er, his surname escapes me at the moment, Something reported a USAF training exercise to give fast mover air superiority pilots some experience against helos.
The basic report was roughly:
Controller: Fight's On.
AH-1 pilot: Guns, guns, guns.
F-15 pilot: Dang. Okay, set it up again.
Controller: Fight's on.
AH-1 Pilot: Guns, guns, guns.
F-15 pilot: Oh f*ck this for a game of soldiers...

As Robert Shaw remarked in Fighter Combat: Tactics and Maneuvering going up against slow low helos with a fast jet is pretty much a no no, he suggested that you bung all your rocket pods (if you're carrying any) in their direction and then bug out.
Harriers are used to low flying (viz: coming back to ship with gorse wrapped round them in the Falklands, and could, if pushed, use their hovering ability. Just a thought.


Footnote:
1 Yup, I got a full set of the papers, it was cheaper at £150 than the £1,500 to actually go to the weekend conference and get a "free" set...   

[Go4fun]

So I've narrowed the range to Harrier Gr.3s for the actual mission as far as Cobras and armored personel carriers, a Hadley Page Victor B2 Mk 1 to give the Harriers the legs to get to the target area and provide overhead surveilance and maybe some bombs for the field bases and TrnadosGR.4s for cover and help pounding the dirt.
Am I on the right track of off in the boonies here?

[JayBee]

G4F,

a lot depends on the time frame you are looking at.
A Lightning/Tornado mix is unlikely as most Lightnings were long gone before Tornado's came on the scene.
When are you thinking of?

[rickshaw]

The best tactic that I know of against helicopters is to fly high and drop a laser guided bomb on the bugger before he knows you're there.

[Go4fun]

Okay. Timeframe October 1991. The Russians have basicly POed everyone by double-dealing and backing out on all their agreements. America's nationalist (Republicans) got their way andthe US onlt supplied the Allies with war materials and aid. They did go to war with Japan, build The Bomb and nuke  Japan but pulled back afterwards to let the rest fight it out.
Canada is more interested in protecting herself than defeating America.The UK is pulling it's forces back to concentrate on the Russian threat.
I'm Pretty much set on the Victor b.2 Mk 1 and the Harrier GR.2s.
The Americans have been hit in the northern sections by Canada/Uk and the ground forces are thin and the air force is thinner. Mexico is raiding everywhere but Texas, (Who has susceded from the US and has a non-agression agreement), the American Army of liberation is forming and scattered with poor commo and supply.
If you need more I'll put a link up so you can read the story as written to date.
By the by, some of the less radical What-Ifs you guys have designed or built might apply in my world.

[PR19_Kit]

I'm Pretty much set on the Victor b.2 Mk 1 and the Harrier GR.2s.

[JMN mode on]

Actually there never was a Harrier GR2, the Mk 2s were trainers. The GR1 was the original in-service single seater and the GR3 was a GR1 with a laser nose cone added.

[JMN mode off] 

[Go4fun]

So Wickipedia has it wrong? Thanks Kit. Did they make a Harrier with longer wings? LOL!
And would the Victor B.2 Mk 1 be a good escort/fueler for the 'Little Brothers"?

[Mr.Creak]

A Lightning/Tornado mix is unlikely as most Lightnings were long gone before Tornado's came on the scene.

Bah! It's a WHIF!!!

LIGHTNINGS FOREVERRRRR!!!!

[Go4fun]

That's the spirit JayBee! It would be Lightning IIs anyway.