RAF Lockheed Lightning (P-38 F/H) Mk.II

[kitbasher]

Has to be SEAC or Tiger Force escort pending deliveries of the DH Hornet.  British Pacific Fleet markings I would argue would be also used by the RAF over the Pacific, so maybe natural metal with these markings?  Would be different.

[NARSES2]

Has to be SEAC or Tiger Force escort pending deliveries of the DH Hornet.  British Pacific Fleet markings I would argue would be also used by the RAF over the Pacific, so maybe natural metal with these markings?  Would be different.

Yup BPF markings for Tiger Force with those dark blue ID bands 

[Knightflyer]

So at the moment possible choices appear to be :-

1) Natural metal, dark blue ID bands and SEAC markings

2) Natural metal, dark blue ID bands and BPF markings

and the whiffiest outsider

3) Dark blue,  white ID bands and BPF markings

So now all I need to do is find the kit where-ever it is in my stash and resist the temptation to buy more P-38s to do the two options that I don't model! 

[Army of One]

As to where else it would be used.....whirlwind replacement as it was deemed as not so good.... Low down strafer as it has a sizeable punch gun wise and can carry a large amount of bombs/rockets.....standard RAF colours of the grey/green with duck egg blue (?) or sky/grey undersides.....

Later marque as a back up/supplement to Typhoons of the 2nd TAF....same scheme as the tiffie....

I really like the desert option as well.....as well as the SEAC one....

[wagnersm]

Would the RAF swapped the Allisons for Merlins, for commonality with other RAF aircraft?

Steve

[PR19_Kit]

That may have made a LOTof sense!

Once R-R had done it with the P-51 much of he bracketry and the electrical issues would have been solved. They may have needed some more cooling though, the P-39 has teeny-weeny apologies for radiator intakes as standard.

[Army of One]

What about the P38.......? 

[PR19_Kit]

What about the P38.......? 

Once you seen 38 of them you've seen 'em all...... 

Right, I not only misread the title of the thread I got it mixed up with another one too! I think my reply would stand though without the radiator bit, those on the boom sides of the P-38 are quite big enough as they are!

Didn't someone here do a Merlin engined Lightning as a model a while back? And if not, why not? 

[kitbasher]

Once R-R had done it with the P-51 much of he bracketry and the electrical issues would have been solved. They may have needed some more cooling though, the P-39 has teeny-weeny apologies for radiator intakes as standard.

Even the P-38J?

[jcf]

That may have made a LOTof sense!

Once R-R had done it with the P-51 much of he bracketry and the electrical issues would have been solved. They may have needed some more cooling though, the P-39 has teeny-weeny apologies for radiator intakes as standard.

The production P-51 Merlin installation was a North American design, not Rolls-Royce.
The P-38 installation would have been different again as the Lockheed turbo-supercharged
Allison installation was completely different from the version installed in the P51.

The US manufacturers didn't use standardized installations, each was tailored to the airframe.

Also are you speaking of just switching powerplants and retaining the turbo-supercharger
induction system, or installing a V-1650 with two-stage, two-speed mechanical supercharger?
If the latter, its overall length would be a problem as real-estate is limited in the booms.

According to some sources Merlin power was suggested by Lockheed management, however, the
USAAF passed on the idea due to the major production delays that switch-over would have caused.
Also in the P-38J and on, the Allisons were actually rated in the same horsepower neighborhood as
the V-1650 Packard-Merlin in the P-51D.

That said, I wonder what a turbo-supercharged V-1650 might have been like.

Kitbasher, all P-38 models had basically the same radiator setup in the booms, the deeper chin of the
J model and on was because of a new intercooler installation.

[PR19_Kit]

Dunno why I bother sometimes...........

[kerick]

Packard Merlins would still look cool on a P-38 (or a P-39). Just use the Mustang scoop adapted for the boom. Might have to make it longer. I've got to many future projects to try it.

[wuzak]

Also are you speaking of just switching powerplants and retaining the turbo-supercharger
induction system, or installing a V-1650 with two-stage, two-speed mechanical supercharger?
If the latter, its overall length would be a problem as real-estate is limited in the booms.

The usual suggestion is to fit the 2 stage Merlin 61 without the turbo system.

Length wasn't the issue - weight is. A 2 stage Merlin would be roughly equivalent to the weight of the Allison and turbocharger system. However, all of the Merlin's weight would be ahead of the wing, whereas the original P-38 installation had some of the weight behind/over the wing.

Lengthwise the 2 stage Merlin wasn't that much longer than the V-1710 (F-series).

According to some sources Merlin power was suggested by Lockheed management, however, the
USAAF passed on the idea due to the major production delays that switch-over would have caused.

Lockheed did studies for P-38s with the Merlin XX (V-1650-1), Merlin 61 (V-1650-3) and an "advanced Merlin" (Merlin 100 series). They also produced a study of the P-38 with a 2 stage V-1710.

[wuzak]

Various performance estimates for Merlin engines in the P-38. First there was the Merlin XX, then a study with the Merlin 61 and in 1944 a study for an advanced Merlin (100 series).

Code Select Expand


                                         Merlin XX    V-1710-F2 (-27/29)
                                        Reprt 2036           YP-38
Takeoff BHP                              1280/3000       1150/3000
Critical Altitude Military bhp                1170            1150
Critical Altitude, feet                      21000           25000
Critical Altitiude max speed, mph              431             405
P-38 weight, pounds                          14500           14348
Sea level rate of climb, ft/min               3160
Sea level max speed, mph                       354
High speed cruise, bhp/rpm                875/2650       1000/2600
High Speed cruise mph/Alt ft             393/20000          /25000
High Speed cruise fuel use lb/bhp/hr         0.485
Range at high speed cruise, miles/gal         2.78             3.10
Service Ceiling, feet                        38100           38000
Engine, with turbo & ducts, pounds            1430            1590
Normal range, miles                            640             650
Normal fuel capacity, gallons                  230             210

Code Select Expand


                                   V-1710-F17 (-89/91)           Merlin 61
                                    Military   Normal       Military   Normal
Altitude for max speed, ft             27000    25000          27300    30200
Maximum speed, mph                       418      395            423      403
Sea level                                360      326            343      326
5000ft                                   365      342            365      345
10000ft                                  382      358            386      364
15000ft                                  396      374            406      381
20000ft                                  408      386            406      395
25000ft                                  416      395            414      388
30000ft                                  414      383            419      402
Absolute ceiling, feet                 42300    38500          42300    41200
Service Ceiling, feet                  41600    37800          41600    40400
Climb in 5 minutes, feet               17800                   17800
Climb to 20000ft, minutes                6.2                     5.9
Climb to 25000ft, minutes                8.7                     8.4
Climb to 30000ft, minutes               12.2                    11.8
Distance to takeoff
of 50ft obstacle, feet                  1640                    1770

Code Select Expand


                                    Standard  Advanced   Advanced     
                                       P-38J   Allison    Allison        Merlin
War Emrgency Power, bhp                 1600      1725       2000(wet)     2000
WER engine, rpm                         3000      3200       3400           n/a
Engine?propellor gear ratio           2.00:1    2.36:1     2.36:1        2.36:1
Propellor diameter, feet                11.5      11.5       12.5          12.5
Turbosupercharger, GE Type              B-33      B-39       B-38       Jet Exh
Fuel grade                               130       140        140       Special
Propellor activity factor               89.3      89.3        110           110
Propellor weight increase, lbs             0         0         51            51
Per engine weight increase, lbs            0         0         45           n/a
P-38 operational weight, lbs           16200     16200      17250         16500
Increase in maximum speed, mph             0        12         16            38
Increase in maximum climb, fpm             0       490        850          1300
Impact om manoueverability %               0        0?         -5            -1
Maximum sea level speed, mph             356       364        382           398
Maximm speed @ 30000ft, mph              436       448        452           468
Maximum climb in 5 minutes, feet       18700     21600      23000         25600
Timb to climb to 30000ft, minutes        8.7       7.2        6.2           6.2
Absolute ceiling, feet                 43900     43900      43700         43900




From Dan Whitney, Vee's For Victory - The Story of the Allison V-1710 Aircraft Engine 1929-1948.

[The Wooksta!]

Unless you use the slimline Merlins Rolls Royce developed for the Hornet.  All of the ancilliaries are behind the engine to ensure as small a cross section as possible.  They were available in '43, or at least the prototypes were being bench tested.