F-6A (F4D) Skyray and F5D Skylancer

[elmayerle]

If the Skylancer derivative had flown a bit earlier, and perhaps even pre-empted F-4D production, then things could be very different! If Douglas can get the Skylancer ready in time, i.e. some time in 1956 (i.e. not long after the first Crusader flight), and make a good proposition to the USN, then the Crusader may not make it into service. Vought would then turn their attentions to replacing the F-3H Demon, where McDonnell would then play up the 'two engines = safety' line, and the Phantom may win; this could then result in the Crusader becoming an orphan! The Skylancer then flies alongside its cousin, the A-4 Skyhawk, from all the Essex class carriers (which the Phantom is too big for). The Skylancer also benefitted from the stretching of the F-4Ds fuselage, which was partly to allow for the afterburner, but I think it also made some more room for fuel. Perhaps Douglas could even buy time and switch to the even larger J-79 engine (since the airframe did have some growth margin built in), and boost the Skylancer's speed a bit more.

This could actually have an unintended result - if the '50s Skylancer beats the Crusader, then by the late '60s it would be pretty outdated, and perhaps there would even be calls for a new lightweight fighter for the mid '60s! Perhaps Vought, having lost the '50s competition with the Crusader, decide to re-think; they decide that the ruggedness of the Skylancer was decisive - a weakness in the variable-incidence wing of the Crusader. They decide to revamp the Crusader, with a new wing design, and a bigger radar in the nose, with the intake moved back a little bit (sort of halfway between an A-7/F-8 nose and an F-16 nose/intake design). The result is a multi-role aircraft, with a very strong wing, allowing plenty of hardpoints; and uses a license-built derivative of the British Spey engine, but a bit bigger (grown up to 17,000 dry and 24,000 in reheat). The aircraft is sold to the Navy on the basis that is provides an aircraft that can: carry as many weapons as the A-7 would have, can operate from the Essex class carriers, and can reach Mach 2, while carrying only slightly fewer missiles than the Phantom. This would enter mass production in the mid-to-late '60s, and be produced in huge numbers; perhaps this would give the Esssex class carriers a new lease on life - they did have life left in them, they just lacked a modern fighter, since the Crusader was far from modern by the '70s! Perhaps this would see the Essex class maintained or even brought back into service in the '80s as part of Reagan's fleet build-up.

According to Ginter's book on the F5D Skylancer, the production F5D-2 ws to have the J79 for power, which would've done several good things since it was lighter and ultimately more powerful than the J57 the prototypes flew with.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

"There I was...." approving John Lacey's latest batch of aircraft profiles to his gallery folder and I realized he had just uploaded a batch of WHIF Skyray profiles. 

This caused my imagination to wander as I was approving each of them to the gallery and I came to the realization that there was no two seat F4D Skyray. 

Wassupwidat? 

So my idea is to consider kit bashing a two seat TA-4 Skyhawk forward fuselage section with the F4D Skyray.  They are similar in cross section and the right age.  So how about it?  A two seat F4D Skyray could be an all weather interceptor that carried AIM-7 Sparrow missiles or a trainer for new pilots assigned to fly the Skyray. 

Any other mission suggestions for a two seat F4D?

[Jschmus]

A two-seat Skyray could have operated as a fast-FAC in Vietnam, similar to the AF-9J Cougars that were flown then.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

A two-seat Skyray could have operated as a fast-FAC in Vietnam, similar to the AF-9J Cougars that were flown then.

Jason,

A most excellent suggestion.  Perhaps it would be armed with the Zuni rocket pods fitted with WP warheads for putting smoke on the target.  Maybe fit it with one of the early jamming pods and one the AN/AVQ-10 Pave Knife or the smaller AN/ASQ-153\AN/AVQ-23 Pave Spike pod to designate targets for other fast movers.  

[dy031101]

A two seat F4D Skyray could be an all weather interceptor that carried AIM-7 Sparrow missiles or a trainer for new pilots assigned to fly the Skyray.

Perhaps the single seat F4D can also adopt partially or entirely the fire control system of F3H-2N/2 Demon for launching Sparrow III missiles, too?

[elmayerle]

A two seat F4D Skyray could be an all weather interceptor that carried AIM-7 Sparrow missiles or a trainer for new pilots assigned to fly the Skyray.

Perhaps the single seat F4D can also adopt partially or entirely the fire control system of F3H-2N/2 Demon for launching Sparrow III missiles, too?

I'll have to check what how they compared now that I've acquired U. S. Naval Air SUperiority, 1945-1962 on the evolution of the first few generations of USN jet fighters.  It looks to be a fascinating read. so far and with some definite whif material.

[elmayerle]

According to the book, the F4D-1 used the APQ-50 radar while the F3H-2 used, in different sub-types, the APG-51, the APQ-51, or the AN/APG-51B.  From what the book says, all of these radars were of reasonably similar perfomrance, the APQ-51 and AN/APG-51B having necessary provisions for the targe illuminator required by the aPARROW MISSILES CARRIED BY THE Demon.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Currently available for viewing on the main page of modellversium.de and built by Lars Kolweyh.  Lars has done a remarkable job with the Tamiya 1/48th scale Douglas F4D-1 Skyray which includes a scratch-built fire control radar.  


Skyray references:

Joe Baugher's page on the Douglas F4D-1 (F-6A) Skyray
Wikipedia page on the F4D-1 (F-6A) Skyray

[ChernayaAkula]

Two-seat F4D, huh?  Excellent idea! 

[ElectrikBlue]

Two-seat F4D, huh?  Excellent idea! 

Two-seat F4D... Maybe Skyray+SkyHawk(TA-4J) cockpit... 

[sideshowbob9]

^ Beautiful! Now I know what I'm doing with my Skyray! 

[Aircav]

That two-seater Skyray looks just so right 

[ChernayaAkula]

Oh, that has all the looks of a winner!  

[redstar72]

Anybody have any Skyray links that have not been posted here?

Some walkarounds:
http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle4/f4d-1_139177/
http://www.small-scale-masterpieces.com/englisch_WAF4D_Skyray.htm
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/601-700/walk643_F4D-Skyray_Murph/walk643.htm (only 4 photos, but useful)

F4D Skyray drawings:
http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw/f4d.html

F5D Skylancer drawings:
http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw/f5d.html

Skylancer photos from Dryden NASA center:
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/F-5D/Large/index.html

[Jschmus]

Friday the National Naval Aviation Museum posted some new images featuring the F4D Skyray.