Lockheed Martin F-35A, B, C and other ideas

[Thorvic]

Good

We actually banned F-35 discussions for a while as some either see red whilst other have rose tinted specs that it can do no wrong and its the next best thing since sliced bread thus not leaving any room for the middle ground in the discussion where the aircraft actually is.

This thread was allowed as we finally got some decent kits of the F-35 rather than X-35 available and its really for exploring the What-if potential of the aircraft as there are plenty of other aviation forums to discuss the merits or woes of the JSF program.

Personally from a Whif point of view i would love to see a kit of the F-32 come out as it would be a rather nice comparison with F-35 models and really give us something to play with in modelling terms.

So please try to stay on focus with the aircraft and modelling it leaving the heated discussions elsewhere on the net 

[Librarian]

I absolutely and completely apologise for any offence taken...I had no idea. I wish you had stepped in earlier. Due to my condition I spend most of my time on meds. I came off them to help quit smoking and there lies the problem. This is what-if and it is a wonderful place to be.

On a happier note anyone trying to quit the dreaded weed, please try 10 Motives. Instant quit, can't stop raving about them.

[ChernayaAkula]

<...> Are we getting any F-22s?

In a word: no.  The last F-22 rolled off the production line almost two years ago. No further F-22s for anyone. And that's even if they lifted the export ban.
Actually, this may be where a lot of the (non-US) F-35's detractors come from: they'd rather have had the F-22. But that wasn't gonna happen before due to the export ban and is, of course, even more unlikely now that the assembly line has been dismantled.

[jcf]

I have to say I'm glad I kicked off this debate. What the hell, good plane. I truly hope it lives up to these expectations. I still feel the gut instinct that we have drifted down the wrong path if a long term conventional war does erupt (then God help us all). If this should happen I believe when dealing with this phenomenally high tech equipment and cost that within a short space of time new simpler equipment will come on line quite quickly. Its sabre rattling when you really look at it in detail.

In every long-term conventional, industrialized war of the last 150 years, since and including the US Civil War,
the weapons in use at the end of the war have been more complex, of higher tech and greater expense, than those in use at the beginning. There is no reason to assume anything would change in the near future.

[rickshaw]

I have to say I'm glad I kicked off this debate. What the hell, good plane. I truly hope it lives up to these expectations. I still feel the gut instinct that we have drifted down the wrong path if a long term conventional war does erupt (then God help us all). If this should happen I believe when dealing with this phenomenally high tech equipment and cost that within a short space of time new simpler equipment will come on line quite quickly. Its sabre rattling when you really look at it in detail.

In every long-term conventional, industrialized war of the last 150 years, since and including the US Civil War,
the weapons in use at the end of the war have been more complex, of higher tech and greater expense, than those in use at the beginning. There is no reason to assume anything would change in the near future.

I agree.  Invariably, waiting in the wings, is technology that is either just about to be adopted or hasn't been because of cost.  Once a war starts, peace-time accounting goes exits, stage right (to continue the theatre metaphors) and insteps war-time accounting, from stage left and you worry about paying for what you're building now, later.  Then you have the new stuff, which needs to either be invented or fully-developed before it can reach production.  Jet engines are perhaps the best example of that, that I can think of off the top of my head.  Very promising but it took 4-5 years to field it, on both sides.   Then unfortunately you sometimes have very promising equipment that doesn't get adopted because of the unwillingness to adopt something completely new in the middle of a war.  The British Army and it's effort to replace the .303in cartridge and the weapons that fired it, springs to mind.  Each time they were on the verge of doing so, a world war intervened and so it soldiered on.

Today, most major military equipment is essentially hand-made.  The production lines work only one or at most two shifts a day.  Everything is made to high precision, simply because it can be.  Come war, the production line would be working 24x7 and where it wasn't important, the pieces would be slapped on and nobody would care if it was out by a fraction of a millimetre.   One only has to look at relatively recent history to see that occurring in the Falklands war where the RN finished a carrier years ahead of schedule (but still too late to take part in the war).

As to how long conflicts last, that's quite variable.  Most societies can't absorb the sort of damage that modern weapons can inflict at high tempos (Balkans, Gulf Wars).   It's where the tempo is low, that you get long, drawn out wars (Iran-Iraq War) and society becomes used to them and absorbs the damage that is inflicted.

[PR19_Kit]

This thread was allowed as we finally got some decent kits of the F-35 rather than X-35 available and its really for exploring the What-if potential of the aircraft as there are plenty of other aviation forums to discuss the merits or woes of the JSF program.

Kits, in the plural, of the F-35? 

I thought here was only one so far, and that in 1/48 too. Please tell is which ones you know of.

[Thorvic]

This thread was allowed as we finally got some decent kits of the F-35 rather than X-35 available and its really for exploring the What-if potential of the aircraft as there are plenty of other aviation forums to discuss the merits or woes of the JSF program.

Kits, in the plural, of the F-35? 

I thought here was only one so far, and that in 1/48 too. Please tell is which ones you know of.

KittyHawk 1/48th F-35B
KittyHawk 1/48th F-35A
Fujimi 1/72 F-35B
Italeri 1/72 F-35A (Due next month http://www.italeri.com/news_scheda.asp?idNews=327 )
Pitroad 1/144 F-35A
Pitroad 1/144 F-35B
Pitroad 1/144 F-35C

Those are out or about to be
Cyber Hobby(Dragon) do have the 1/72 A & B listed as part of their future plans
Hasegawa did announce the same a few years ago but have been on hold for some time.
I expect KittyHawk to release an F-35C in 48th in the next 18 mths or so and i doubt i would be wrong in saying that Italeri will look to follow up their F-35A with an F-35B under next years listings

[NARSES2]

<...> Are we getting any F-22s?

In a word: no.  The last F-22 rolled off the production line almost two years ago. No further F-22s for anyone.  But that wasn't gonna happen before due to the export ban and is, of course, even more unlikely now that the assembly line has been dismantled.

Wasn't aware of that thanks for enlightening me 

In every long-term conventional, industrialized war of the last 150 years, since and including the US Civil War,
the weapons in use at the end of the war have been more complex, of higher tech and greater expense, than those in use at the beginning. There is no reason to assume anything would change in the near future.

Absolutely agree and of course there's the situation Rickshaw refers to when old equipment is kept in place because to change over in the middle of a war just wouldn't be practicable.

[Taiidantomcat]

We actually banned F-35 discussions for a while as some either see red whilst other have rose tinted specs that it can do no wrong and its the next best thing since sliced bread thus not leaving any room for the middle ground in the discussion where the aircraft actually is.

Here is a trip down memory lane.

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,6630.0.html

This one is really funny, given how things have shaken out:

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,31001.0.html

[McColm]

There is still the software program to be worked out ,if they use the Eurofighter as the starting point then the Lightning II  should be a good aircraft .
I still think that the Yak-41/43 should have been developed further with Rolls-Royce engines and a new wing. Got one in my stash 1/72 Yak-141 and a spare pair of F-22 Raptor wings .

[pyro-manic]

This sums it up perfectly, IMO:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234947309-the-end-no-more-jets-for-me/#entry1415276

[PR19_Kit]

Why should there be any connection between the Typhoon and the F-35?

They're TOTALLY different aircraft, the aerodynamics have no connection with each other, the power plants are totally different and the software on one won't work at all on the other. Not to mention that the missions aren't the same either.

[Taiidantomcat]

This sums it up perfectly, IMO:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234947309-the-end-no-more-jets-for-me/#entry1415276

We all have aircraft that dont "do anything for us" looks wise

Being a whiffer I never had that "boring model" problem  , my sympathies. Boring gray jets are nothing new as it is. beyond it being subjective, age plays a factor too. I thought the coolest airplane ever invented was the F-14, the Super hornet is a joke looks wise compared to the Tomcat, yet I encounter more and more youngins who "grew up with it" and its their favorite looking plane, I'm sure there people that felt the same way about the cat replacing the phantom. lastly airplanes grow on people. Build a model of something and you see its looks from many angles and develop an appreciation for it you might not have had, Movies help too for the same reason and add a chance to watch the aircraft "in action"

[Librarian]

This is very true, and dare I say it the F-35A ( I emphazise A ) has grown on me. No one here or almost anywhere would have altered the way I feel about its abilities, but if the Israelis like it then that's good enough for me.

I can't see for the life of me why the Me/Bf 109 is popular but millions of Lufties can't be wrong . Vive la differance .

[Alvis 3.14159]

I used to know modellers who didn't build anything post WW2, as it was "boring". Everyone has their likes and dislikes, and there's enough models out there to keep us all amused for a very very long time.

I had another hand waving non-fan of the F-35 in the store the other day. It's amusing hearing the same old arguments regurgitated for the umpteenth time, really.

Alvis Pi