Lockheed Martin F-35A, B, C and other ideas

[wuzak]

Fine, we're out!
http://o.canada.com/2012/12/06/1107-col-dentandt/

Wait, we're in!
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/12/06/poli-f35-pmo-government-fighter-jets.html

Last I heard Australia had backed away from its proposal to buy 100 F-35As, and insists that they only have commitment to buy 2.

Originally the replacement for the F/A-18s was to be decided through competitive bidding, but then the Howard government decided that they need look no further than the F-35. So we got stuck with them.

Around that time Sukhoi apparently offered the Australian government a pair of Su-27 series (not sure if it was Su-27 or -35) aircraft for evaluation, but that offer was rejected.

Meanwhile our fleet of F-111s was grounded and then mothballed and replaced by F-18E/F Super Hornets. The latter is what we will probably buy if the F-35 isn't purchased.

Arggggh! How can a guy make a Whif if they keep changing it???

Oh well, I'll try to concentrate on the least likely plane. Which would that be again, the Rafale, Gripen, Sukhoi, or Arrow?

A truly operational F-35 could qualify as a Whif?

[wuzak]

Do you actually need the liftfan to use a ski-jump?  Other non-lift fan aircraft such as the the MiG-29 and the Su-27 manage it.  I admit it makes landing back on a carrier much easier but it isn't necessary.

Maybe not, but it does increase the warload that you can lift.

Landing on with a ski-jump at the other end of the deck with no arrestor gear or hook could could concentrate the mind a tad, not to mention overeheat the brakes! And the F-35 has neither reverse thrust nor a tail chute AFAIK.....

As Mr. Farley said 'It's a lot easier to stop and land than it is to land and stop' 

Some aircraft can cope with a missed landing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-8DFu-6sag

[wuzak]

And I think that piccie of the F-35 with the big underwing and conformal tanks was posted 'tongue in cheek', this is the World of WHiff after all..............

The F-35 has seriously short legs. So I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up like that in operational use!

[wuzak]

Was just reading about the Queen Elizabeth class carriers, finding it interesting that the RN are stuck with helicopter based AEW aircraft now, and will continue to be with the QE and PoW.

[Rheged]

What of the RAF? Are they opting for the -A, -B or -C?

The R A F are getting the -P  version.  Lovingly and accurately folded from the finest F-35 brochure offcuts,  it will provide grace and charm to desks throughout the Ministry of Defence.................and for air defence purposes, there are ongoing negotiations with Burma over a couple of squadrons of  refurbished Spitfires.

[PR19_Kit]

MONSTER POST WARNING!

"For the F-35B pilot, converting from conventional to STOVL mode will be no more complicated than pushing a STOVL conversion button. The same button on a conventional takeoff and landing F-35 (an F-35A or F-35C) lowers the tail hook. "The button initiates a magical transformation," says J.D. McFarlan, who leads the F-35 air vehicle development team.

This transformation, as McFarlan describes, includes the opening of all STOVL doors and the propulsion system preparing to engage the clutch. Once all doors are open, the clutch is engaged when sets of carbon plates are pressed together to spin the lift fan up from a complete stop to engine speed. Once the speeds between lift fan and engine are matched, a mechanical lock is engaged to remove the torque load from the clutch and permit operation to full lift fan power. After the lock engages, the propulsion system completes conversion to STOVL mode and responds to aircraft commands. The entire sequence takes approximately fifteen seconds.

When a pilot gets to a slow speed during STOVL mode, the sidestick is used to move the plane up or down. When the pilot's hands are removed from the controls, the airplane simply hovers in place.

"The conversion button sets a lot of things in motion," says Graham Tomlinson, a BAE Systems F-35 test pilot who participated in early test runs on the hover pit. "But the complexity is in the airplane and the propulsion system. Converting to STOVL, which is fully automated, is a smooth transition for the pilot." "

"The lift fan is covered from above by an aft-hinged door, which opens as the aircraft transitions to hover mode. Thrust is controlled by the speed of the lift fan, a set of variable inlet guide vanes that reside above the rotating blades of the lift fan, and by a device called a variable area vane box nozzle on the lower side of the fan. The vane box nozzle (middle photo) contains a set of six vanes (or louvers) that direct and control the amount of downward thrust emanating from the lift fan."

--from http://www.codeonemagazine.com/f35_article.html?item_id=13


VAVBN controllability:
"The thrust produced by the Rolls-Royce LiftFan exits
via a Variable Area Vane Box Nozzle (VAVBN). When the
VAVBN is active, it modulates the LiftFan thrust
between 41.75° and 105° of vector."

(extract from Vertiflite Vol.55, No.2)
--found on an RC site

At last, something that explains what the hell is going on. 

The bit about '......operation to full lift fan power....' would indicate that the fan starts running with the aircraft in CTOL mode which would have interesting effects on the pitch angle were it not for the 'Unified' control system that's mentioned in the next paragraph. That's the control system that I referred to previously that John Farley had tested out.

Interestingly it would seem that the lift fan 'throttle' is formed by the variable inlet guide vanes ABOVE the fan itself, which stacks up with the original Wiki page. I'm not sure the writer of the last bit about the vane box nozzle quite has a handle on it though.

The photo clearly shows that the vanes can move the DIRECTION of the fan's thrust fore and aft. What it doesn't show is any method of throttling, and it wouldn't need to as that's done above the fan anyway. Quite what '........ it modulates the LiftFan thrust between 41.75° and 105° of vector.....' I'm not sure either. I presume it's saying that the lift fan thrust angle can be adjusted from 41.75 deg aft to 15 deg forward of the vertical, but that's not what it actually says.

But at least we're getting there.

Some aircraft can cope with a missed landing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-8DFu-6sag

If you watch that vid closely you might notice that the ship (Thorvic will tell us its name I'm sure, and probably the Captain's as well.... ) has an angled deck so the Su-33 would have missed the ski-jump whatever happened. The QE class is a straight, albeit very wide, decked carrier.

Was just reading about the Queen Elizabeth class carriers, finding it interesting that the RN are stuck with helicopter based AEW aircraft now, and will continue to be with the QE and PoW.

The RN have been stuck with helicopter based AEW since the Gannet AEW3s were struck off charge when HMS Ark Royal (the real Ark Royal....) was de-commissioned. Only the Falklands War 30 years ago triggered the MoD into doing anything at all about AEW for the FAA! I'm not even sure anyone at MoD is even thinking about a fixed-wing AEW aircraft as yet. Of course people will be yelling 'E2' in the background but I'm not sure the MoD are listening.

What of the RAF? Are they opting for the -A, -B or -C?

See what I said below........

The RAF's page on the MoD site doesn't mention the sub-type that will be ordered but if they DIDN'T have the 'B' there wouldn't be a hope of them operating from the carriers, as they did with the JFH's GR7/9s.

[Taiidantomcat]

The F-35 has seriously short legs.

Oh?





1:1 scale model for antennae testing purposes

[Hobbes]

Some aircraft can cope with a missed landing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-8DFu-6sag

Bloody hell. That's one way to do a vertical takeoff...

[NARSES2]

The R A F are getting the -P  version.  Lovingly and accurately folded from the finest F-35 brochure offcuts,  it will provide grace and charm to desks throughout the Ministry of Defence.................and for air defence purposes, there are ongoing negotiations with Burma over a couple of squadrons of  refurbished Spitfires.

You'll be getting the 2:00am knock on the door for disclosing State secrets   Mind you by the time the "boys" find Cumbria it will probably be nearer 2014   and yes I did deliberately miss the colon  

[Rheged]

The R A F are getting the -P  version.  Lovingly and accurately folded from the finest F-35 brochure offcuts,  it will provide grace and charm to desks throughout the Ministry of Defence.................and for air defence purposes, there are ongoing negotiations with Burma over a couple of squadrons of  refurbished Spitfires.

You'll be getting the 2:00am knock on the door for disclosing State secrets   Mind you by the time the "boys" find Cumbria it will probably be nearer 2014   and yes I did deliberately miss the colon  

Disbelieve if you will, but whilst I was working for a publisher/distributor  based in Carlisle, a client from Michigan  called to say that he was visiting England and would like to call on us. He said that he would be in London later in the month, and which Underground station was nearest our offices?  We were tempted to say " Take the tube to Watford and then ask for directions".....................another renegade faction wanted to tell him "Mornington Crescent"  but as he wasn't a Radio 4 listener, we thought perhaps not!

[NARSES2]

Disbelieve if you will, but whilst I was working for a publisher/distributor  based in Carlisle, a client from Michigan  called to say that he was visiting England and would like to call on us. He said that he would be in London later in the month, and which Underground station was nearest our offices?  We were tempted to say " Take the tube to Watford and then ask for directions".....................another renegade faction wanted to tell him "Mornington Crescent"  but as he wasn't a Radio 4 listener, we thought perhaps not!

I believe you. I spent 35 years working for British Steel/Corus and can well remember visiting Barrow and Workington when the mills were operating. Best trip was to Shap limestone quarry. Took 3/4 days for a 2 hour meeting if going by train. 1 day there, day for the meet, 1 day back. And that was if you got the connections and got picked up at the nearest station ! Did it 3 times, once in winter 

[Taiidantomcat]

[ChernayaAkula]

^ You know what, scrap the F-35 and buy that 737 instead! Awesome sensor suite, plenty of range, twin-engine safety, canards (maneov...manouv.. manuver...agile!), lots of space inside for bombs, Slammers and even fuel for a buddy pod.   

[lenny100]

^ You know what, scrap the F-35 and buy that 737 instead! Awesome sensor suite, plenty of range, twin-engine safety, canards (maneov...manouv.. manuver...agile!), lots of space inside for bombs, Slammers and even fuel for a buddy pod.   

now thats an idea for a build

[PR19_Kit]

A model of that 737 complete with vectored thrusts exhausts would be pretty awesome. Adding lift fans to it may be a tad more difficult however.....