Lockheed Martin F-35A, B, C and other ideas

[rickshaw]

Ummm, Nils, the aircraft has from the start been the Joint Strike Fighter, the whole
point of the damned project was a primary role as an attack aircraft, not an A-to-A fighter.

Which is where I have the problem with Australia's purchase of F-35s. To my mind the first job of the RAAF is to defend our airspace, not to invade that of other countries.

But I guess the mission profle is little different to the F-18s we already have.

Adding to what Thorvic has said, might I ask, what can't the F-35 which the RAAF might require of it?

Remember, the RAAF's role is one of gaining air superiority and striking at the enemy.  The F-35 is capable of both missions - if used properly.   It is not expressly designed as an air superiority fighter but then, few nations can afford such such a luxury and there are few if any such fighter aircraft on the market.  Don't talk about the F-22, please.  It's ceased production has never been offered for export!  The Su-27 is a generation behind.  The F-15 even further back.  The Sukhoi PAK-FA is still in development and does not offer the same capabilities as the F-35.

The F-35 is designed to be a fighter-bomber - just as you note the F/A-18 was, indeed, as the Mirage IIIO was before it.  It is designed to be a compromise between something that can be used in both roles - to gain air superiority and strike at the enemy.  Nowadays, fighters don't fight alone, they fight as part of a synergistic weapon system, which relies on AEW&C, ECM and other aircraft and radars to enable the fighter to position itself at the most advantageous point to destroy the opposition (preferably without being seen) and prevent them from gaining control of the air battle and striking at us.

There is no viable alternative to the F-35 at the present time in the West's armoury.   There are no aircraft that offer the same advantages in stealth, radar and EO detection systems.   The F-35 is not perfect.  No aircraft is.  However, it's the one major system that most of the West has signed up for, better or worse.  There is simply no viable alternative.  We can take a step back and settle for second best if you want but as far as I am concerned, it would be doing a disservice to our pilots and service people and placing them at a severe disadvantage compared to any potential enemy.

[Taiidantomcat]

[Taiidantomcat]

http://media.dma.mil/2013/Sep/16/2000711569/-1/-1/0/130620-D-FW736-029.JPG

http://media.dma.mil/2014/May/30/2000798432/-1/-1/0/140521-F-SG137-060.JPG

[McColm]

There was talk of a two seater not as a trainer but as an inhouse by Lockheed for a replacement for the USMarines Prowler known as the EF-35C as a rival to the Growler. Do you know if any sketches or profiles exists?

[Taiidantomcat]

There was talk of a two seater not as a trainer but as an inhouse by Lockheed for a replacement for the USMarines Prowler known as the EF-35C as a rival to the Growler. Do you know if any sketches or profiles exists?

Lockheed does have blueprints for a twin seater, but its very hush hush and is not publicly available. I had never heard of the EF-35C proposal,I do know the USMC is planning on putting Jamming pods (NJGs) on a standard, or slightly modified F-35 in the future though as a prowler replacement. Prowlers are going to be "sunset" around 2019 IIRC



Great pic of the RAAF roll out, Its the same color as other F-35s, but thanks to the lighting gives a look at a lighter gray flavor.

[Jesse220]

Have they ever thought about making a Swing wing Variant of the F-35?

[McColm]

The software has had improvements on the USMarines F-35, as to a swing-wing . That's a Whiff project of mine. I still think the F-22 should have been developed into a VSTOL giving the option to the customer.

[sandiego89]

I still think the F-22 should have been developed into a VSTOL giving the option to the customer.

The lift requirements for a VSTOL F-22 boggles the mind.  Empty weight @43,000 pounds, max take off 80,000+ lbs.

We have never really seen a succesfull VSTOL fighter with more than one engine.  I don't see how it could be realistically done.  I guess you could go with a bunch of lift jets, or twin F-35 like lift fans, a tail sitter, or a single massive engine, but each would have serious compromises for carrying around empty weight, space requirments, or compromises to steatlh- and would likely look much different from the F-22 as we know it. Not a bolt on option.

   

[McColm]

I suppose it's a question of wait and see. A lifting fan was  put into a F-117 so it could happen.

[kitnut617]

A lifting fan was  put into a F-117 .

Really, where did you get that idea from ---

[sandiego89]

A lifting fan was  put into a F-117 so it could happen.

I'd be interested in about that as well?

I'd say only in fiction or flight sim perhaps.  Could you be confusing the intake grids (to keep radar waves from the compressor blades) with a lift fan???

[rickshaw]

I still think the F-22 should have been developed into a VSTOL giving the option to the customer.

The lift requirements for a VSTOL F-22 boggles the mind.  Empty weight @43,000 pounds, max take off 80,000+ lbs.

We have never really seen a successful VSTOL fighter with more than one engine.  I don't see how it could be realistically done.  I guess you could go with a bunch of lift jets, or twin F-35 like lift fans, a tail sitter, or a single massive engine, but each would have serious compromises for carrying around empty weight, space requirments, or compromises to steatlh- and would likely look much different from the F-22 as we know it. Not a bolt on option.

All good options.  There were semi-serious proposals for twin-engined Harriers in the 1960s &  70s.  Rolls-Royce proposed a twin Spey option but it had a spaghetti like series of pipes to allow air-flow from one side to the other by the opposite engine.  Another proposal was to put two Pegasus engines, one behind the other, with them using a common centre exhaust (where the normal rear one on the Harrier was).   Problem was an engine-out in the hover.  No matter what system they used, they couldn't guarantee anything except a crash-landing.  They would have had to be like the Yaks - automatic ejection as soon as controlled flight parameters were exceeded or an engine failure occurred.

I can't see an F-22 being rebuilt with a lift-fan or any other VTOL system.   I could foresee a new aircraft but it would be hideously expensive to build and test and it would need big compromises to work.   I'd expect to see it with either a really big lift fan or direct lift jets if it was to happen.

[McColm]

A lifting fan was  put into a F-117 .

Really, where did you get that idea from ---

There is an article on the Secret Projects website, it refers to NASA studying the possibilties of stealth VSTOL back in 1986. A mock lift fan was installed for passing satellites to take pictures. As there is a photo of the aircraft on their site.

[kitnut617]

A lifting fan was  put into a F-117 .

Really, where did you get that idea from ---

There is an article on the Secret Projects website, it refers to NASA studying the possibilties of stealth VSTOL back in 1986. A mock lift fan was installed for passing satellites to take pictures. As there is a photo of the aircraft on their site.

Yes!     I just read that --- and the consensus was it was just fake.  And I couldn't find a pic of it there ---

[Go4fun]

"I can't see an F-22 being rebuilt with a lift-fan or any other VTOL system.   I could foresee a new aircraft but it would be hideously expensive to build and test and it would need big compromises to work.   I'd expect to see it with either a really big lift fan or direct lift jets if it was to happen".
Rickshaw

And since when does any government give a hoot about how musch the latest war toy cost? "$30 Billion a copy and it can't fly? What the hey it looks cool and it isn't like it is MY money after all"!