French Dreadnought Bourgogne

tigercat · December 13, 2012, 04:06:01 AM

Now any of you who followed the launching of HMS Elephant may remember I had a hull I started but decided was too small now the modelling bug having overcome common sense I have decided to complete this hull to give me two Battleships.

I was originally thinking a Courageous type aircraft carrier. However I came across a picture of the never completed Normandie Class. With it's short bow more can be fitted on board so it was ideal inspiration.

So watch out for the Normandiesque Bourgogne

sequoiaranger · December 13, 2012, 11:48:03 AM

>I was originally thinking a Courageous type aircraft carrier. However I came across a picture of the never completed Normandie Class. With it's short bow more can be fitted on board so it was ideal inspiration. So watch out for the Normandiesque Bourgogne<

The French did that themselves, called it the Béarn, never completing the battleship version with four four-gun turrets! If you're making a BATTLESHIP, that's different!

Joe C-P · December 13, 2012, 05:06:18 PM

If you want to whiff it, why not... hmm... skip the forward turret and replace it with a catapult deck for seaplanes? The ship still has 12 guns plus its own spotters. This idea was proposed more than once in the wacky early days of mixing planes and big guns.

tigercat · December 15, 2012, 01:39:32 AM

Yup BATTLESHIP all the way 12 guns , hangar and aircraft handling facilities.

sequoiaranger · December 15, 2012, 11:03:39 AM

>Yup BATTLESHIP all the way 12 guns , hangar and aircraft handling facilities.<

Can't wait to see it!

sequoiaranger · December 15, 2012, 11:44:31 AM

Not that ANYONE might think I could come up with a silly idea

but I recall that both follow-on French carriers Joffre and Painleve had "offset" flight decks. Not "angled" as some have claimed, but that the center of the flight deck was offset to the left of the centerline of the ship. That being said, might "we" exaggerate that a bit and have a flight deck be kind of a "sidecar", that is, keep the superstructure of the battleship and have a full-width front deck (front turret might have to go--need the space for aircraft handling and gathering for catapulted take-off) and a somewhat narrow flight deck along, say, the left of the ship, severely cantilevered? Maybe even keep the mid-ship turret but have a "fan" of armor on the flight deck (to protect against blast effects) where an elevator might go, too. (

) Not too well thought out, yet, but...

?

Gondor · December 15, 2012, 01:32:42 PM

Quote from: sequoiaranger on December 15, 2012, 11:44:31 AM
Not that ANYONE might think I could come up with a silly idea but I recall that both follow-on French carriers Joffre and Painleve had "offset" flight decks. Not "angled" as some have claimed, but that the center of the flight deck was offset to the left of the centerline of the ship. That being said, might "we" exaggerate that a bit and have a flight deck be kind of a "sidecar", that is, keep the superstructure of the battleship and have a full-width front deck (front turret might have to go--need the space for aircraft handling and gathering for catapulted take-off) and a somewhat narrow flight deck along, say, the left of the ship, severely cantilevered? Maybe even keep the mid-ship turret but have a "fan" of armor on the flight deck (to protect against blast effects) where an elevator might go, too. () Not too well thought out, yet, but...?

Are you talking about something like an outrigger? Also might be better to keep the front turret and remove the second turret so that the guns could be fired without hitting anything aircraft like.

Gondor

tigercat · December 16, 2012, 06:33:01 AM

The superstructure seems to have evolved into a combination of the normandie class and some of the later french designs.

A couple of Italeri coastal forts and one of their bunker a spaghetti holder and a plastic camping cup have so far sacrificed themself for the cause.

Pictures to follow soon.

loupgarou · December 17, 2012, 05:58:08 AM

Quote from: sequoiaranger on December 15, 2012, 11:44:31 AM
Not that ANYONE might think I could come up with a silly idea but I recall that both follow-on French carriers Joffre and Painleve had "offset" flight decks. Not "angled" as some have claimed, but that the center of the flight deck was offset to the left of the centerline of the ship. That being said, might "we" exaggerate that a bit and have a flight deck be kind of a "sidecar", that is, keep the superstructure of the battleship and have a full-width front deck (front turret might have to go--need the space for aircraft handling and gathering for catapulted take-off) and a somewhat narrow flight deck along, say, the left of the ship, severely cantilevered? Maybe even keep the mid-ship turret but have a "fan" of armor on the flight deck (to protect against blast effects) where an elevator might go, too. () Not too well thought out, yet, but...?

In this case, maybe it would be better to move the main gun turrets, offset from the center line, on the other side, to balance the weight?

Nick · December 30, 2012, 05:32:31 AM

How about using the plans for the USS New Jersey in the 1980's? I think the idea was to mount a pair of mini runways on either side with a central hangar where the rear turret was.
They were going to fly Harriers but you get the idea.

Joe C-P · December 30, 2012, 07:43:15 PM

They might have done something like this during WW1, but the experiences of the RN with their conversions showed that central superstructures cause too much turbulence for proper plane landing, and these BBs wouldn't have been ready until well after WW1.
However, floatplanes and seaplanes can land on the sea and be loaded aboard and catapulted into the air, so perhaps a deck and maybe even a hangar aft with a pair of catapults and a crane.

tigercat · December 31, 2012, 05:03:19 PM

tigercat · February 11, 2013, 04:04:35 AM

Bourgogne is looking good and ha smost of her main and secondary armamament

She has 12 main guns although only 2 turrets are completed and 16 secondary weapons

photos to follow

catapult is on the turret in Q position.

I think I may be addicted to scratchbuilding ships as I've also been working on a Landing Ship Stern Chute name to be decided but probably soemthing floral to go wit the others and a LSD probably going to be called HMS Seaway.

Captain Canada · February 11, 2013, 06:16:40 AM

That thing is huge ! Is it your biggest one yet ? Catapaults and LSDs would be great for you to build, then you get to play with a/c and tanks/trucks/jeeps and amphibs and smaller landing craft. Cool !

tigercat · February 11, 2013, 09:22:20 AM

It's a little smaller than my other battleship . It was sort of accidental

I messed up the measurements on HMS Elephant and had to redo the hull from scratch so rather than redoing the hull I thought I'd salvage it. Originally it would have been another aircraft carrier probably HMS Audacious but I saw a picture of the French battleships with the turrets right forward and that inspired me to try another battleship

I now have 2 Battleships

2 Aircraft carriers

A monitor and another one on its way

as well as a host of smaller ships and support craft.

As well as the other Amphibs I'm revisiting a project I did in my teens a car ferry in blu red and yellow I was never entirely happy with . I reckong i can salvage the superstructure and turn it into a LSI either (s) or (m) along the lines of the Dutch ones.

which will give me 4 amphib ships including HMS Buffalo my great lakes conversion.