Flying Boat Strategic Bombers

[PR19_Kit]

Lets assume you can get a conventional type bomb bay in the hull of a flying boat to seal.  You'd then need to think about rearming the thing.  Would you haul it out of the water every time (to do it from below like with a land based bomber) or would you make other arrangements - via a hatch on the side for example.

Martin solved all of that umpteen years ago with the P6M Seamaster. They got it all to work very well indeed, it was just that the USN lost the battle with the 'Great God' LeMay and had to can the project.  

[NARSES2]

This is my first post.  I would have introduced myself properly but I couldn't find an appropriate thread so please forgive me diving straight in.  It seems I was "What Iffing" way back when without realising it.  They're long gone now but the 5 engine B17, Twin jet butterfly tail Hawker Tempest and Combat Space Shuttle were particular favourites.  And yes, they did indeed hang from my bedroom ceiling.

Firstly welcome aboard. Secondly I think a lot of us started "What Iffing" without realising it, in some cases many, many years ago.

Like the idea of the Catalina/B17 cross

If you want to introduce yourself then you can find the appropriate slot here http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/board,82.0.html

Chris

[jcf]

Lets assume you can get a conventional type bomb bay in the hull of a flying boat to seal.  You'd then need to think about rearming the thing.  Would you haul it out of the water every time (to do it from below like with a land based bomber) or would you make other arrangements - via a hatch on the side for example.

Martin solved all of that umpteen years ago with the P6M Seamaster. They got it all to work very well indeed, it was just that the USN lost the battle with the 'Great God' LeMay and had to can the project.  

'Twasn't just Le May, the nascent strategic force airedales faced a far more tenacious enemy:
Hyman G. Rickover and the Nuclear Navy. Rickover and Co. needed money and were not going
to share. 

[zenrat]

This is my first post...

Firstly welcome aboard. Secondly I think a lot of us started "What Iffing" without realising it, in some cases many, many years ago.

Like the idea of the Catalina/B17 cross

If you want to introduce yourself then you can find the appropriate slot here http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/board,82.0.html

Chris

Thx Chris

[Captain Canada]

I'm beginning to believe there's a flying boat bomber build brewing !

[sagallacci]

The one big selling point to the notion of "strategic" seaplane bombers in a 1930-40s setting would be refuel/refit at sea. Actually considered for attacks on N.America by the Japanese. Perhaps a US equivelent as an alternative to the B-29 basing issues. The plane would not nessisarily be an ultra-long range type either, being forward fueled before the attack by subs or even surface assets as the naval tide turned in the US's favor. Speed and altitude would be the likely design criteria of the day. However, as the logistics of huge numbers of seaplanes would be fierce, there might be an emphasis on fewer but bigger type/larger bomb load. A flying boat version of the XC-99 (easily reconsidered for the B-36) was actually designed. Or marry more B-29 features to the Sea Ranger, making it faster and higher flying. Or, without much of a stretch, put a boat hull under a B-24, (or B-32, to get wacky) though it would be short-legged if loaded down with a big bomb load.

[PR19_Kit]

One handy thing about big flying boats is that the available runway length is almost infinite, so you could just add power and thus speed until the thing decided to lift off. 

[Rheged]

One handy thing about big flying boats is that the available runway length is almost infinite, so you could just add power and thus speed until the thing decided to lift off. 

Logical and sensible,  but flying boat hulls dislike hard, unyielding floaters in their take-off run. Keeping the water clear of rubbish would be a thankless task........and it has suddenly occurred to me, would  an opponent seed likely operating bases with air dropped influence mines (magnetic or pressure, for instance)?  I don't know if these would respond to a flying boat. 

[PR19_Kit]

Even if they did the 'boat may be going so fast, over 100 kts, that the mine may not go off in time to actually damage the 'boat.

Having said that I have a vague idea that the RNAS mined a German flying boat somewhere in WWI but I bet it'll take some digging to find info on it.

[Dizzyfugu]

Welcome on board.

One way to tackle the re-arming issue was the P6M  SeaMaster's approach: it had a rotating bomb bay (Buccaneer style), what made sealing it easier, and actually the bomb bay could be re-filled from above, thorugh a dorsal opening (not certain if even a complete bomb bay could be inserted/replaced). Pretty convenient solution, as loeading bombs or mines on the water should be pretty tricky. No idea how this was done e. g. on P5Ms, which had bomb bays in the engine nacelles? Certainly from below, but I guess that loading in something from below from a boat would be hazardous...?

[PR19_Kit]

The Seamaster's loading hatch was aft of the wing trailing edge and the weapons were loaded one at a time into an internal conveyor that carried them forward to their correct positions on the bomb door. The crane that did the lifting and the hatch doors were all part of the airframe!

When on land the entire bomb door could be removed and replaced with another one, even with a different weapon load. They even flew it with a 'tanker door' which carried an FR refuelling hose reel and tested it with quite a few USN attack types. although none were real 'wet' transfers IRC.

[Dizzyfugu]

Thanks a lot for the correction!

[jcf]

The oceans are big but the conditions in which the flying boats can operate are limited.
If the seas are too rough, your not taking off nor landing.
The dream in the '50s was to design maritime flying machines that could operate in
the open sea, lots of ideas were tested but none came to fruition.

[PR19_Kit]

But isn't that similar to gusting and cross-winds which affect landplanes? Both types have their limitations determined by the weather.

[jcf]

Nope, hard runways don't move up and down, unless of course your in a Bruckheimer film.

Sea state is the killer.