Was the Lincoln nuclear capable?

[Howard of Effingham]

another way of looking at this is to see when the first operational blue danube was delivered to bomber command
and its armament school which was always at RAF wittering. i am pretty sure this was before 1321 flight tested
the device at maralinga, however an _exhaustive_ history of UK nuclear weapons is unlikely to ever be written.

take a look at the wikipedia entries for blue danube and the maralinga test sites and draw your own conclusions.

i'd've said a very small number of lincolns might've been nuclear capable but only in extremis and were only so capable up until the time the first valiant sqn was declared operational.

N.B. i've modified the above post a lil' in the light of other's comments in this thread.

[sandiego89]

Interesting Wooksta and Howard, thanks for that. I have reached my conclusion, and would agree that "in extermis" would be a good way to put it.  Would love to see a picture. 

From Wiki :" The first Blue Danube was delivered to stockpile at RAF Wittering in November 1953 although there were no aircraft equipped to carry it until the following year". 

[lenny100]

your wish is my command

[The Wooksta!]

It was the size of Blue Danube that determined the size of the V Bomber weapon bays.

[sandiego89]

Thanks Lenny.  The picture I would really like to see was the one The Wooksta mentions his contact saw- a trial fit in a Lincoln. 

Seems a few aircraft and bomb bays were designed around the size and shape of the early bombs- V-force, A-1 Savage, Neptune?

[The Wooksta!]

And also - if you believe the masturbatory fantasy ravings of lunatics who still can't come to terms with the fact that the Nazis lost - various Luftwaffe and Hikoki 46 paper projects.

Blue Danube isn't much bigger than a Grand Slam and a trial fit with an assembled 72nd one proved that it will indeed fit inside a Lancaster.  Lincoln could carry Grand Slam as standard inside bulged bomb bay doors.  Ye Olde Contrail Lincoln, the first release - yes, there have been two and I have the mouldings to prove it - came with the bulged bay doors as standard, plus normal bay doors, Grand Slam and the Australian nose section too.

For some years, I've a plan for a Lancaster/Lincoln hybrid - the Avro Lanchester - powered by either Griffons or Centaurus engines and toting either 'Housekeeper' (Blue Danube casing with high explosive warhead) or my favourite, 'Nursemaid' (Blue Danube casing with a LOX/Kerosene warhead and intended as a blast weapon for use against troop concentrations or railway marshalling yards).  Or possibly a radio controlled stand off bomb in the form of a Miles M52 with a warhead - one of them dropped from some distance and capable of going near supersonic would be ideal against U boat pens.

[TsrJoe]

there was a Lancaster used for ballistic casing trials of what became 'Blue Danube' which as Lee correctly notes is very similar in size and form to 'Grand Slam' (which i am sure is not by 'accident')

cheers, Joe

[andrewj]

And also - if you believe the masturbatory fantasy ravings of lunatics who still can't come to terms with the fact that the Nazis lost - various Luftwaffe and Hikoki 46 paper projects.

Blue Danube isn't much bigger than a Grand Slam and a trial fit with an assembled 72nd one proved that it will indeed fit inside a Lancaster.  Lincoln could carry Grand Slam as standard inside bulged bomb bay doors.  Ye Olde Contrail Lincoln, the first release - yes, there have been two and I have the mouldings to prove it - came with the bulged bay doors as standard, plus normal bay doors, Grand Slam and the Australian nose section too.

Neither Lancaster or Lincoln could carry a Grand Slam inside bulged bomb bay doors , but they could carry a Tallboy. In order to carry Grand Slam the doors needed to be removed and fairings added at the front and rear of the bomb bay.

Andrew

[kitnut617]

I'm sure a more aerodynamic fairing could quite easily have been made, like the one developed for the B-29



But looking at drawings of the Avro 684 High Altitude Bomber, the Grand Slam could have been totally enclosed.  I'm sure that this project was ear-marked for a nuclear role ---

[Logan Hartke]

Was it capable of carrying a nuclear "shape"?  Theoretically, sure.  Depends on what era, what size nuclear weapon, and what modifications you'd like to make.

To answer your question as it was posed, though...no, the Lincoln was not "nuclear-capable".  The RAF would never have bothered with the Boeing Washington B.1 had the Lincoln been nuclear-capable.  That was the whole point of acquiring them in the first place.  They hated the B-29s they did get (can't blame them) and ditched them as soon as they could.



Cheers,

Logan

[McColm]

I've never heard of the Shackleton carrying nukes, I know that the Nimrod were capable.

[lenny100]

The Royal Navy deployed WE.177A in its intended role as a fixed-wing strike weapon and as a helicopter-borne anti-submarine weapon. However, neither RAF Coastal Command long-range maritime patrol Shackletons or its successor, the Nimrod, ever deployed this weapon. There were plans to do so, but never implemented, the 79 WE.177A weapons planned for their use being allocated elsewhere. From 1961 Shackletons were supplied with a stock of 36 US Navy Project 'N' weapons maintained for their use at RAF St Mawgan, Cornwall, and Sigonella US NAS, Sicily. Shackletons carried the Mk-101 Lulu NDB, and were able to carry two plus other weapons. Nimrods could carry two B-57 NDBs, but were allocated only one per aircraft. Use of the American weapons was restricted to the NATO area and temporary deployments of Coastal Command Shackletons and Nimrods to the Middle and Far East were without nuclear weapons. A primary reason for wanting a UK-owned NDB for these aircraft was to free them from that and other restrictions on their operational flexibility. Nimrods based in Cyprus on NATO duties had to first fly the 894 nm to Sicily to collect their weapons from American custody.

[rickshaw]

there was a Lancaster used for ballistic casing trials of what became 'Blue Danube' which as Lee correctly notes is very similar in size and form to 'Grand Slam' (which i am sure is not by 'accident')

cheers, Joe

It wasn't by accident.  Blue Danube used the aerodynamic studies from Grand Slam.  As has been noted, Blue Danube was basically a modified Grand Slam in design, which is obvious if you compare pictures of the two.  IIRC Vulcan's Hammer talks at length about the development of Blue Danube and where it's roots lay.

[Geoff]

To answer your question as it was posed, though...no, the Lincoln was not "nuclear-capable".  The RAF would never have bothered with the Boeing Washington B.1 had the Lincoln been nuclear-capable.  That was the whole point of acquiring them in the first place.  They hated the B-29s they did get (can't blame them) and ditched them as soon as they could.



Cheers,

Logan

Thanks, that was the basic theory I had on the Washingtons too. So our strategic nuclear bomber force was the B-29s not the Lincolns/Lancs etc.

[Logan Hartke]

That's correct.  Secondhand B-29s at that.  They were war-weary aircraft that gave the RAF nothing but headaches...but they could carry an atomic bomb, so nothing else mattered.

Cheers,

Logan