Making a Harrier F.5/7, could use a little input.

Sauragnmon · February 21, 2013, 03:46:14 PM

G'day, gentlemen...

I dug out my 2010? Airfix Club Kit the other day, on a whim. I've got the SHar FA.2 (newer kit with the sea eagles) and their GR.7 of the time. I couldn't help myself, being the guy I am, and decided to make the GR.7 into an ADV - I swapped the GR.7 nose for the smooth pointed one from the kit - I would surmise that this is an AV-8 nose, since it also has the AV-8's gun mounting. I've reached a bit of a situational point here, with the Payload.

I've got her slinging Six Sidewinders - two on the Winder Rails, and four on the outer hardpoints with Winder Twin-Rails. I've used the remaining two wing hardpoints for AIM-120 - the US, I remember, gave one upgrade of the AV-8 a comparable system to the F-18's. I fitted the bigger GR.7 gun pods instead of the AV-8's trim-pack, and I'm considering the Centerline point. Do I mount something, and if so What, on the Centerline point or pull it and fill the holes? I've got it in a gear-up config, and the forward point is unfortunately a little close to the hardpoint so things might be snug.

Input requested, gentlemen.

chrisonord · February 21, 2013, 04:48:56 PM

A drop tank would be a handy addition, not sure whether one would fit ok, but it would be a good idea if it could.
Chris.

sandiego89 · February 21, 2013, 05:27:44 PM

I would recommend a fuel tank on each the inner wing stations- Harriers and Sea Harriers almost have them and for good reason- they need the fuel for meaningful range or time on station. If you are thinking about an air defense role I think they are a must.

The centerline store is not plumbed for fuel. I would leave it empty, especially if you have the gun.

Gun is a great idea.

Six side-winders is a little much. I would recommend a drop tank, and AIM-9 (or two) and a AIM-120 on each wing. Two AIM-120's, Two AIM-9's, a gun and two drop tanks is a perfectly acceptable ADV load out.

Your proposed load may look good, but is quickly approaching too much weight. Remember bring back weight is important, especially for sea based vertical landings and hot and high conditions. You don't want to have to punch off unused weapons just to land- it gets rather expensive. You have also added weight with the radar, associated avionics and the gun. Not much margin on a GR7.

Just my 2 cents for added realism- but it is your WHIF- so have fun!

Captain Canada · February 21, 2013, 06:51:03 PM

Fuel on the centreline. This is whif ! Or nowt.

But if you do fill the holes, I'd put smaller SHAR tanks on the inboard pylons ( better in the dogfight

) and reduce the Sidewinders to 4. Can you put the twin 'winder racks on the original 'winder rails with the smaller tanks ? then put the -120s on the outboard pylons ?

Either way, or any way, this is going to be great !

Sauragnmon · February 21, 2013, 07:49:56 PM

I tried to switch the twin rails, but no luck. They're a close fit on the outermost, but on the Winder rail they're too wide for the tanks. Tossed the Centerline Pylon, couldn't think of anything with the forward clearance on the rack. I pulled the adapters on the winder rails and put the 120's on those stations - I had to be careful on clearance for the wing gears, but they're clear and there's still substantial length for the hardpoint line to hook up the 120 and let the gear down. SHAR tanks fit smoothly, looks good.

Now... I just have to come up with some markings for it and some idea of camouflage...

rickshaw · February 22, 2013, 12:33:26 AM

The SHAR-2 was originally proposed with underwing tanks which also carried twin AIM-120s underneath the tanks. As it is Whiff-world, I see no reason why they should not be adopted.

Sauragnmon · February 22, 2013, 12:37:04 AM

That is an interesting proposal, but really, considering the nature of the beast, I think the 4&4 config is best... especially packing twin cannons as she is. That and my supply of 120s is a little narrow.

Hobbes · February 22, 2013, 02:44:12 AM

For the AIM-120s, you need a radar nose as on the FA/2 or AV-8B+.

Captain Canada · February 22, 2013, 03:24:11 AM

Is it going to be RN or USMC ? I like the late RAF Harrier colours and the new GR.9 kit has some excellent instructions on the variations of it.

Mossie · February 22, 2013, 04:18:28 AM

You could replace the gun pods with the pylons for the AIM-120. I think development aircraft for the Sea Harrier FRS.2 (designation before FA.2 was officially adopted) flew with AIM-120's in place of the gunpods. I can only find profiles though:
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww3/a/405/9/5

sandiego89 · February 22, 2013, 04:52:22 AM

Quote from: Mossie on February 22, 2013, 04:18:28 AM
You could replace the gun pods with the pylons for the AIM-120. I think development aircraft for the Sea Harrier FRS.2 (designation before FA.2 was officially adopted) flew with AIM-120's in place of the gunpods. I can only find profiles though:
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww3/a/405/9/5

Later Sea Harriers did indeed sometimes fly with AIM-120's in place of the gun pods. Personally I do not think they look "right" there, but just my opionion. I still say go with the gun/guns on the belly- often handy to have guns. With the GR7 wing there should be plenty of space for AIM-120's, winders and tanks.

rickshaw · February 22, 2013, 06:25:35 AM

Over-wing launchers for the AIM-120s?

Hobbes · February 22, 2013, 07:12:09 AM

I put AIM-120s on the fuselage stations of my FA.2:

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,30445.30.html

Martin H · February 22, 2013, 09:36:08 AM

hmm I would keep the gun pods, mount a winder rail under each of the drop tanks on the inboard pylons (as per the original proposed SHAR 2 load out), a 120 under each out board pylon. And to add a bit of extra punch. Wing tip winder rails.

Sauragnmon · February 22, 2013, 01:32:15 PM

While the ideas are nice, I wound up destroying one of the winder adapters to get it off the hardpoint. I don't have resources really to put more 120's on, the nose is a smooth cone but doesn't have the short extension on it, though comparing to the FA.2 there's enough width to allow it to use the FA2's Blue Vixen without needing the extension, simply putting it a little forward in the nose as there's more diameter at the start of the cone.

I'm not sure about putting it in the hands of the top two suspects, I was thinking it might be interesting in a country that uses them as a secondary deterrent in more troubled regions of the world - you might be able to hit the airbases, but you can't destroy all the highways so to speak - a Swedish style approach.