Intercooling: Superchargers & Turbochargers

Started by KJ_Lesnick, February 23, 2013, 07:49:18 PM

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KJ_Lesnick

I've been searching Google left and right and I can't seem to find a concrete year or date that specifies when intercoolers were first used in turbochargers let alone superchargers.  Does anybody know any of the following

1: When was the first turbocharger developed which featured an aftercooler/intercooler in
A: The United States
B: Great Britain
C: Anywhere

2: When was the first supercharger developed which featured an aftercooler/intercooler in
A: The United States
B: The United Kingdom
C: Other?
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

Hobbes

This source has 1942 as the earliest use of the word 'intercooler": http://www.wordola.com/wusage/intercooler/all.html#

Rolls-Royce first used the intercooler around 1941 in the Merlin 60 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Merlin)

The principle was used much earlier in air compressors (1910, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercooler)

sagallacci

Certainly, there were intercoolers in the '30s for turbosuperchargers, as various US aircraft were testing them and began fitting them into production, specifically the B-17, most successfully, and with some work, the P-38. As  design/concept, the idea likely goes back much further, with R&D going back to the '20s.
Intercoolers for more conventional supercharged engines? The Merlin is the first that I can find good info on, though any number of other engines, notably German Vs, at least tested them(Jumo 222 had them as standard but was not a real production engine), though instead used methanol-water injection for similar effect. Later Allison V-1710s had them, but more as inspired/copied from the Merlin.

KJ_Lesnick

Quote from: sagallacci on February 26, 2013, 12:04:25 AMCertainly, there were intercoolers in the '30s for turbosuperchargers, as various US aircraft were testing them and began fitting them into production, specifically the B-17, most successfully
Not to be overly questioning, but are you sure it had an intercooler from the outset?

QuoteIntercoolers for more conventional supercharged engines? The Merlin is the first that I can find good info on
Yeah...
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

sagallacci

My impression was that turbos and intercooling was the intent for the mature configuration, and it was simply that the hardware needed to catch up with the intent. As previously mentioned, intercooled turbos had been on the drawing boards and in prototype use for a good while before, and the B-17's expected performance envelope was exactly that kind of application. 

KJ_Lesnick

sagallaci

So the B-17 had an intercooler in it's turbo?  To clarify
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

dogsbody

"What young man could possibly be bored
with a uniform to wear,
a fast aeroplane to fly,
and something to shoot at?"

jcf

Sanford Moss used the aftercooler/intercooler early in his GE work:

circa 1920-21

Frank Lockhart designed and built an intercooler that he used on his Miller 91 in 1927:


The problem of supercharging raising the temperature of the pressurized air-fuel mix was understood
very early in the development of the technology.

eatthis

Quote from: dogsbody on February 27, 2013, 09:11:22 PM


is the classification the same as it is on cars? ie if its engine driven its a supercharger and if its exhaust gas driven its a turbocharger?

that looks like a turbo to me
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Hobbes

Quoteis the classification the same as it is on cars? ie if its engine driven its a supercharger and if its exhaust gas driven its a turbocharger?

As far as I know, yes. But early on, the nomenclature hadn't settled down yet so you occasionally see things like the 'turbosupercharger' in this drawing.

PR19_Kit

Quote from: eatthis on February 27, 2013, 11:47:42 PM
is the classification the same as it is on cars? ie if its engine driven its a supercharger and if its exhaust gas driven its a turbocharger?

that looks like a turbo to me

Yes, the classification is the same as in the automotive industry and that looks like a turbo because it is one.   ;D

A Merlin has a supercharger, but unlike most production car engine superchargers it's gear driven directly off the back of the crankshaft and not belt driven. The Merlin supercharger is that enormous pancake shaped thing right at the back of the engine.

Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

jcf

Turbo-supercharger is the original, and correct, technical term, shortened to turbocharger or
turbo for convenience.

Most of supercharged Miller racing engines used a centrifugal blower, similar to those
commonly used on aircraft engines, rather than the Roots type blower used on the
Blower Bentleys and a gazillion hotrods and dragsters.

eatthis

my car has a centrifugal supercharger and its driven off the main seprentine belt
i much prefer them to turbo chargers and roots/screw type superchargers it just drives so much nicer
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https://www.etsy.com/uk/your/listings?ref=si_your_shop

http://tinypic.com/m/hx3lmq/3

PR19_Kit

Quote from: eatthis on February 28, 2013, 09:47:37 AM
my car has a centrifugal supercharger and its driven off the main seprentine belt
i much prefer them to turbo chargers and roots/screw type superchargers it just drives so much nicer

Does it indeed? What sort of car is that then?

Turbos, scroll type superchargers and centrifugal superchargers give very different driving characteristics to the cars they are fitted to, not to mention the relative sizes of the various blower designs. It's very difficult to compare like with like of course as it would cost a fortune to change the blowers over, but some manufacturers have done it on their production lines, Volkswagen being one who've used both turbos and Rootes type blowers in various Golfs and Polos at times. IIRC VW had at least one engine with both a turbo AND a Rootes blower fitted at the same time!
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

jcf

eatthis: a Paxton or Rotrex?

The Lancia Delta S4 also has both turbo and Roots blowers.