German Zero Me-A6M

[Fritz13]

  In my searches i found an artwork of the A6M as it was license built by the Germans for the Battle of Britain, where it's long legs made a significant difference in combat time over target, and turned the course of the battle

[Old Wombat]

Nice one!

Most conversions are German-to-Japanese, this reverses that. Cool!



Guy

[Librarian]

In my searches i found an artwork of the A6M as it was license built by the Germans for the Battle of Britain, where it's long legs made a significant difference in combat time over target

Now that would have been a rude shock to our pilots. Would have given Winston a reality check as to the superb abilities of our Far Eastern brothers .

[Fritz13]

If not for the insistence of the US, Britain would have still been allied with the Japanese.  The Japanese made them pay for that insult.  The Germans needed to get some tech from Japan.  The Condor did all right on sea patrol, but some long legged fighters would have helped the Germans going both west and east.  Getting some tech help to finish the Graf Zepp and those other carrier conversions would have been a great help too.  If the Bismarck had a CAP, what a difference that would have made for her.  Or what a relief for the subs if American patrol aircraft were getting jumped on by naval fighters.  The convoys would have suffered greatly too.  Imagine a real carrier war in the Atlantic.  As well as Britain taking air strikes from any direction, pincer strikes from the air, just as you face off fighters from France, a carrier strike comes in from behind.

[nighthunter]

The Zeke, while an agile fighter, was a flying death-trap, and would not really have turned the tide in the favor of the Germans.

[Logan Hartke]

The Zeke, while an agile fighter, was a flying death-trap, and would not really have turned the tide in the favor of the Germans.

I agree with aspects of this, but why not leave this thread for an appreciation of the model rather than a critique of the scenario. 

Cheers,

Logan

[PR19_Kit]

The Zeke, while an agile fighter, was a flying death-trap, and would not really have turned the tide in the favor of the Germans.

I agree with aspects of this, but why not leave this thread for an appreciation of the model rather than a critique of the scenario. 

Cheers,

Logan

Possibly because the caption under the piccie invites such criticism?

[Logan Hartke]

Eh, I just read it as a hypothetical, like I do with my profiles, not as a topic to be debated.  Mind you, were somebody to post a discussion thread for it, I'd gladly participate, I just didn't know if the poster would want that here.

Cheers,

Logan

[Librarian]

The Zeke, while an agile fighter, was a flying death-trap, and would not really have turned the tide in the favor of the Germans.

If I'm allowed one shot, the Americans were firing .50s with the right types of ammo load-out. I think in the B of B, which this thread is about, we were using .303 lead shot. The A6M would have fared better.

[MikeD]

The Zeke, while an agile fighter, was a flying death-trap, and would not really have turned the tide in the favor of the Germans.

If I'm allowed one shot, the Americans were firing .50s with the right types of ammo load-out. I think in the B of B, which this thread is about, we were using .303 lead shot. The A6M would have fared better.

From memory the RAF were using AP, incendiary, tracer and ball ammunition in the Battle of Britain - they'd put a lot of thought into bringing down multi-engine armoured (kind of) bombers don't forget, I don't think the very lightly built Japanese fighters would have stood up well to the eight MGs in the Spitfire or Hurricane, never mind the later 20mm cannon.

It is a nice model though. The colours look strange but they suit it.

[Librarian]

From memory the RAF were using AP, incendiary, tracer and ball ammunition in the Battle of Britain - they'd put a lot of thought into bringing down multi-engine armoured (kind of) bombers don't forget, I don't think the very lightly built Japanese fighters would have stood up well to the eight MGs in the Spitfire or Hurricane, never mind the later 20mm cannon.

Well that shows how much I know  . I apologise. I just remember seeing pictures of German bombers returning to base riddled with small holes. Ah well, nice idea and model .

[Fritz13]

I didn't intend to ruffle feathers with a hardcore discussion, but I think the Zero would have been very helpful in the Battle of Britain.  The German pilots were in a position to use it's strengths much like the Japanese pilots vs the Americans, for a short time.  The German version does not have to be a faithful copy of the japanese naval A6M.  Hopefully it would have been fitted with their BMW radial, and toughened up, and finally replaced with the FW 190 that may have then been built with better range.  They hung in with the Me-109 too long.  The German system bred great innovation, but terrible administration.

[Weaver]

It's a good-looking and thought-provoking model and no amount of discussion about the scenario can or should take away from that. 

The Zeke did well at first because Allied pilots didn't understand it's strengths and weaknesses, and made the mistake of trying to engage it in the kind of low-speed turning dogfights at which it excelled. Once one was captured, and it became clearly understood that the price it paid for it's low weight and wing-loading was a bendy wing that suffered from aileron-reversal at far lower speeds than allied fighters, then the latter could exploit that and the Zeke didn't have a second trick up it's sleeve.

I suspect that if Zekes were committed to the BoB, one would have been captured and analysed rather sooner and it's "moment in the sun" would have been correspondingly shorter. I don't doubt for a moment that it would have extracted a heavy price before then though; after all, Spitfires didn't do terribly well against them over Darwin, did they?

[Old Wombat]

Actually, initially, it was the Buffaloes & Wirraways that didn't do too well over Darwin, then it was the P-40's that struggled. When the Spit's finally did arrive the battle became more even, except that the early warning systems were extremely primitive (spotters, coast-watchers, etc.) & the Australian &, later, American fighters often didn't have the time to get to altitude before the Japanese were on them.

However, I'm sure Herr Messerschmitt would have made changes to the design to better suit European conditions & tactics, rather than just copying the Japanese design. More powerful engine, strengthened wings, cockpit armour, self-sealing tanks &, eventually, 20mm cannon.



Guy

[PR19_Kit]

More powerful engine, strengthened wings, cockpit armour, self-sealing tanks &, eventually, 20mm cannon.

Maybe so, but then it wouldn't have been so agile as it would have been heavier, thus losing its major advantage.