SARO P.108 Lifeboat and P.147 Sea Raider concepts ...

[jcf]

SARO projects for rescue lifeboat and Sea Raider commando attack gliders.
Descriptions and small 3-views from Tagg-Wheeler From Sea to Air;
larger drawings from Wheeler From River to Sea.


P.108 1949
Two versions of a glider, the hull of which detached to serve as a lifeboat. The Mk.II version was favoured
and the hull shape, jettison system and operational technique were investigated in some detail.

[jcf]

P.147 1951-52
Four versions of the Sea Raider project consisting of a glider housing two motor boats. Weights ranged from 10,000 - 30,000 lb and wing spans from 60 ft to 110 ft. In addition the two motor boats ranged in weight from 8,200 lb to 24,150 lb. Straight and cranked wings were considered but all schemes incorporated V-tails and the main hull incorporated a marine propulsion system for use after jettisoning the wing and tail portions and discharging the motor boats and would be equipped with a gun turret. In the boats 2 125 HP Rover V-6 piston engines were initially employed, later Rover Gas Turbines were proposed.

Note that the authors seemed confused between the actual boat part of the gliders and the small assault
craft (something submersible and Sleeping Beauty like?) shown inside the vessels.

[ericr]

fitting boats with wings : a whole range of whiffing and kitbashing in perspective ...

[rickshaw]

Very similar to the original Supermarine concept where a flying boat, if encountering troubles in the air could land on the sea and jettison it's wings and motor back to shore.

[Mossie]

Very intersting projects Jon, thanks for sharing.  Are there any details on what aircraft were considered for tugs?

[Mossie]

I've just answered my own question, Gannet.  There's a section in Chris Gibson's Nimrod's Genesis on the P.108, with a small amount on the P.147.  Gannet's equipped with RATOG would tow the boat from the carrier deck.  Catapult launch was seen as too risky, another approach was for aerial pick up by the tug, but this would have entailed fitting out each Gannet with a winch.

[jcf]

Thanks for that bit of gen, Simon. There was no mention of tugs in the two SARO books.
I'd hope that the Gannet tug was intended for the P.108 rather than the bigger P.147
concepts. 

[PR19_Kit]

How would they launch a Gannet towing a largish glider off a Brit RN Carrier's deck?

The glider would have to be right at the stern and with a decent tow length line the tug wouldn't have much deck length to get off, even with RATOG assistance. The crew of the glider would get the very devil of a 'snatch' if the tug was up to any speed when the line tightened! 

[jcf]

How would they launch a Gannet towing a largish glider off a Brit RN Carrier's deck?

The glider would have to be right at the stern and with a decent tow length line the tug wouldn't have much deck length to get off, even with RATOG assistance. The crew of the glider would get the very devil of a 'snatch' if the tug was up to any speed when the line tightened! 

Perhaps off an RN version of CVA-58 USS United States? 

[PR19_Kit]

How would they launch a Gannet towing a largish glider off a Brit RN Carrier's deck?

The glider would have to be right at the stern and with a decent tow length line the tug wouldn't have much deck length to get off, even with RATOG assistance. The crew of the glider would get the very devil of a 'snatch' if the tug was up to any speed when the line tightened! 

Perhaps off an RN version of CVA-58 USS United States? 

It'd surely need something of that size, yes.

In the 'real gliding' world the tug takes up the slack in the line quite slowly and then stops, awaiting the 'All Out' signal from the wing marshal, and then tug and glider move off as one.

[Mossie]

The book gives a take off run of 450ft (137m) with a 22kt (41km/h) wind-over deck.

No details about the tug for the P.147, but assuming it was carrier based, the only other suitable(?) type I can think of would be the Wyvern?  Sea Hawk might be fun though!

There's more details, I'll post them soon.

[Captain Canada]

What a great idea. I don't like the idea of wasting all that structure, but I could easily get past that as they saved a few lives.

[PR19_Kit]

Hm, not sure I'd want be aboard either half of the combo trying that.

'The Mighty Ark' was 804 ft long and by the time you've taken off the length of the two aircraft and the 350 ft take-off run, that leaves a tow line length of about 250 ft.

[Mossie]

More details on the P.108.2:

Overall length: 42ft 9n in (13m)
Hull Length: 30ft (9.1m)
Wingspan: 51ft (15.8m)
Wing chord: 9ft (2.7m)
AUW: 5,000lb (2268kg)
Tow range:  350nm (648km)
Powerplant: 2x Vincent HRD T5 two stroke petrol engines with a total of 500lb fuel (68.6 Imp Gallons/312 litres)
Speed: 6kt (11km/h)
Range on engines (could be augmented by sales): 760nm (1,048km)

P.147 could carry two cockle kayaks with four commandos.

It seems the studies were quite serious and were studied for well over a year, the need for the P.108 giving way to the aerial lifeboat equipped Shackleton and more viable helicopters negated the need for the P.147.

[Mossie]

This may be the engine, or a development of it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_lifeboat_engine