Alternative MPA and AEW types for the RAF

[lancer]

So, I was watching the second part of 'Jets, When Britain ruled the skies' about the civil airliners the other day, and I got to thinking that what if the Nimrod was completely scrapped; so no Nimrod MRA's. But, in it's place the Vickers Viscount and the Bristol Brittania were looked at instead. Obviously, the Brittania would be the better vehicle, 4 engines, long range and space for plenty of kit.

Also, would I was thinking that the Brittania would make a decent airframe for an AEW machine as well, to replace the Shak. Ok, it would probably mean some structural changed and strenghening but I think it could be a goer.  SO what do you lot think? A good idea or another flamer?

[kitnut617]

The Britannia was looked at only you wouldn't recognize it as a Britannia (if you know what a Canadair Argus looks like then you've got it).  But I would suggest the Vanguard instead on the Viscount --- I'm going to use one of my 1/72 Vanguards to do one ---

[McColm]

There is a Brittanna mentioned in the Secret Project book series. As you know I'm building two Boeing alternativesto the Shackleton in the form of the C-97 and B-50.
Bristol and De Havilland did have something similar in shape and design to the Lockheed Constellation.

[Captain Canada]

Yup. Argus !

[Weaver]

The Britannia or Vanguard would indeed make good MPAs. Whether they'd be good as AWACS or not depends on what radar you want to use. The FAS (Forward and Aft Scanner) system favoured by the RAF and used in the Nimrod AEW.3 didn't like props because they generate hard-to-filter interference. On the other had, the saucer system and the old AN/APS-20 were demonstrably okay with props (E-2C & Shackleton) so adapting those kinds of systems to the Britannia or Vanguard would probably work.

Here's an intriguing cheap AEW idea I had:

Britten-Norman attempted to market an AEW Defender with a Nimrod's Searchwater radar in a huge nose bulge (a sort of fixed-wing Sea King AEW.3 if you like), but it didn't sell, mostly due to the cramped and low-endurance platform. For a bigger but equally cheap platform, how about the Basler Turbo-67, i.e. a Dakota with turboprops? What got me thinking about this was reading that when they do the conversion, Basler have to put a substantial fuselage plug in just behind the cockpit to maintain CofG with the lighter turoprops and this has the incidental advantage of giving more interior space. Since the plug is new-build anyway, it should be relatively simple to build one with a Searchwater dome on the bottom, the taildragger undercarriage giving plenty of clearance. Operator consoles could go on pallets in the rear to compensate for the weight of the radar in the front.

[McColm]

India tried to develop the HS 748 into AEW platform which stalled. The MPA version was built but I don't think any orders were taken. There was a ECM trainer and that did enter service with Australia.

[McColm]

The Bristol 170 and the Bristol Brabazon would make great MPA or AEW aircraft.

[Mossie]

I've got the Avro 698 Vulcan book by David Fildes.  In that there's a fantastic drawing for a Vulcan MPA.  It has a new, stepped nose and a Nimrod style pannier.  Looking at how they had to shoehorn everything in and the amount of mods they had to make, I can understand why HS went with the Comet conversion instead.  Still, very cool project.
I've often wondered what the Victor would look like with the FASS anttena from the Nimrod AEW.  I'm not suggesting it's viable, just would look good.

[PR19_Kit]

I've often wondered what the Victor would look like with the FASS anttena from the Nimrod AEW.  I'm not suggesting it's viable, just would look good.

Would the crew be able to see past the nose antenna tbnough?

The Victor is so low on the ground the radome would be level with the windshield. So the solution might be to put the cockpit in a bulge like the 747 or the AEW Stratocruisers perhaps?

[Mossie]

That might work. Don't think I'll ever do it, just thought it might suit the curvy shape of the Victor.

[Captain Canada]

Oh.....a Victor would look awesome with those extra curves ! Wow....could you imagine ?

[rickshaw]

I've been thinking about smaller MPA.   Mach 2 make kits of the Caravelle, the Viscount and the Convair 440.  The Caravelle had the advantage of jet power.  The other two, propellers.  With the Viscount, you could shutdown two engines and extend range/loiter.  The 440 could be converted to take turboprops as well, there being numerous ones with different engines.  Add MAD stinger, chutes for sonar buoys and either a weapons bay or hard points on the wings.

[Mossie]

Maybe up engine the Viscount?  If the Napier Naiad had been succesful, maybe the planned instalation on the Viscount would have happened?  Alternatively, how about twin RR Tynes instead, might end up looking a lot like the Atlantic?  Similar with the Convair 440, replace the radials with T56's?

[Daryl J.]

Turboprop DC-4!

[Captain Canada]

Oh....now that sounds nice Daryl J !

How about a Tracker ? I love Trackers ! Have we seen on in RN colours ? I know the Tracer, but that ugly compared to the Tracker.