Radar query......

[Army of One]

I know the Jaguar international for the Indian AF had a radar fitted (Agarve from the Super Etendard......?).......could a Jag be fitted with the radar from a Harrier II (Hornet....?) and if it could......could it then carry Harpoon....? Open up other options for warloads.....?

[Weaver]

A Jag couldn't carry an APG-68 without a serious structural re-work: the Agave is a tiny little thing by comparison. Having said that though, there's no reason in principle why a Jag fitted with Agave or something equally small (FIAR Grifo? APG-66 with NZ Skyhawk aerial?) couldn't use Harpoon anyway. It's mainly a matter of giving the missile range and bearing data and the most that might need is an extra black box to "translate".

Of course, the range of the radar limits the range at which you can use the missile without 3rd party targeting. Agave's range against ships is about 30nm IIRC, which is well matched to the AM-39 Exocet, but wouldn't be able to exploit the Harpoon's 80-odd nm range without help from another platform.

[rickshaw]

Isn't it possible to fire a Harpoon on a bearing and have it turn it's active seeker on after a period?

Putting an APG-66 into a pod is a possibility.  The Jaguar was originally trialled with an Agave system in a centreline combination fuel/radar pod IIRC.

[Army of One]

Thanks for the info......so jags firing Harpoons at range and info from a 'designator' a/c for the info for the missile en route....?

[scooter]

Of course, the range of the radar limits the range at which you can use the missile without 3rd party targeting. Agave's range against ships is about 30nm IIRC, which is well matched to the AM-39 Exocet, but wouldn't be able to exploit the Harpoon's 80-odd nm range without help from another platform.

Thanks for the info......so jags firing Harpoons at range and info from a 'designator' a/c for the info for the missile en route....?

If your Jags have Link 16 (STANAG 5516/MIL-STD-6016) capability, you can offset that shorter range, by getting that data from any other a/c, including AWACs, equipped warships in the area, etc before launch.

[Mossie]

If the Hornet's/Harrier II+ APG-65 radar can be shoe-horned into the AV-8B, surely it would fit in Jaguar?  If so, Blue Vixen should also fit.  The Agave fits in the Jags nose with plenty of room to spare.  It would need a new nose, but wouldn't be nuch different to the Harrier?

Add the big wing and uprated Adours and you'll have a potent aeroplane.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1978/1978%20-%202098.html

[Weaver]

IIRC, a lot of the Jag's nav/attack avionics are in the nose between the laser and the cockpit, and the nose profile is pretty slim too. I expect it could be done, but it would need a more extensive re-design of the nose than the simple "radar in place of the laser" conversion for the Agave. If you made it any wider than the cockpit area, you'd have to think about firing clearance for the cannons too. Overall, I think the conversion would be more akin to the Harrier GR.3 to Sea Harrier one, i.e. you'd need to raise the cockpit for geometry/volume reasons, although that would be no bad thing in itself of course: with a big wing, a buble cockpit, uprated engines and a radar, it would be a pretty useful as a fighter, never mind anti-shipping....

Isn't it possible to fire a Harpoon on a bearing and have it turn it's active seeker on after a period?

It is, but the problem with a long-range "blind" shot is target motion. The flight time for a subsonic AShM to cover 90 miles is quite significant, and a ship can change course enough in that time to put it outside the seeker's field of view. The solution is mid-course updates, but that requires some platform or other to be continuously tracking the target.

[rickshaw]

If the Hornet's/Harrier II+ APG-65 radar can be shoe-horned into the AV-8B, surely it would fit in Jaguar?  If so, Blue Vixen should also fit.  The Agave fits in the Jags nose with plenty of room to spare.  It would need a new nose, but wouldn't be nuch different to the Harrier?

Add the big wing and uprated Adours and you'll have a potent aeroplane.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1978/1978%20-%202098.html

Rather as I did with my Jaguar MO5 for the Royal Australian Navy.  I combined a Jaguar radar nose, a Jaguar T2 fuselage with a Mitsubishi T2 wing.

[rickshaw]

Isn't it possible to fire a Harpoon on a bearing and have it turn it's active seeker on after a period?

It is, but the problem with a long-range "blind" shot is target motion. The flight time for a subsonic AShM to cover 90 miles is quite significant, and a ship can change course enough in that time to put it outside the seeker's field of view. The solution is mid-course updates, but that requires some platform or other to be continuously tracking the target.

Yes, there is an assumption that the target will continue in a nice, straight line, I admit but if you fire along their line of navigation, you'll be more likely to still find them in your missile's radar search cone even if they start manoeuvring.  The problem is that cone is deliberately limited because of the cruise altitude of the missile - the lower the cruise, the narrower the cone.

[Mossie]

IIRC, a lot of the Jag's nav/attack avionics are in the nose between the laser and the cockpit, and the nose profile is pretty slim too. I expect it could be done, but it would need a more extensive re-design of the nose than the simple "radar in place of the laser" conversion for the Agave. If you made it any wider than the cockpit area, you'd have to think about firing clearance for the cannons too. Overall, I think the conversion would be more akin to the Harrier GR.3 to Sea Harrier one, i.e. you'd need to raise the cockpit for geometry/volume reasons, although that would be no bad thing in itself of course: with a big wing, a buble cockpit, uprated engines and a radar, it would be a pretty useful as a fighter, never mind anti-shipping....

Knew I'd seen a 'Jaguar' with a radar nose somewhere!  P.71 to AST.396, it's a Jag forward of the intakes.  They've gone the other way, and increased the depth of the fuselage resulting in a local bulge on the underside but managed to get it within the width.
Pic found here: http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/10798

[Captain Canada]

Don't the Indian Jags already have a radar ?

Love that aeroplane 

[Mossie]

The martime attack versions do (Jaguar IM).  The strike version (Jaguar IS), retains the LRMTS, although a planned upgrade may replace it with a radar similar to the Agave on the IM.

Don't the Indian Jags already have a radar ?

Love that aeroplane 

CAF, with the roundel that's missing the white bit?  Allover green, or standard grey/green over light grey?

[Captain Canada]

Got one 

It's almost finished and should be posted up here next week. I didn't like the look of the leafy roundels and went with standard RAF roundels with the idea that it was an anniversary scheme type thing.

[Pellson]

Consideroing that the near relative Mitsubishi F1 carries a more advanced radar, I think a set from a SHAR would be possible to cram in - in a whif world, at least.

[Weaver]

Consideroing that the near relative Mitsubishi F1 carries a more advanced radar, I think a set from a SHAR would be possible to cram in - in a whif world, at least.

But remember that the F1 is based on the long two-seater T2 airframe, which means all it's nav/attack avionics can go in the former rear cockpit. A single-seat Jag doesn't have that option. Both the F1 and the T2 were designed to carry radar from the start, so their forward fuselages are a significantly different shape from the Jaguar's.

Like I've said, I don't think it would be impossible to fit a bigger radar to a Jaguar, I just think it would involve a more extensive re-build (to something along F1/T2 lines) than simply sticking one onto/into the existing nose.

I've had an idea for a while for an "emergency" early '80s fighter version of the Jaguar with the big wing and Blue Fox, but in that case it loses the nav/attack avionics entirely to make room for it.