Landing Ship Battleship.

[tigercat]

You have a scenario out of Commando comics. You are an army commander and have at your disposal some Landing Ships and some tanks.

Your goal  is to eliminate some enemy lurking  naval menace probably something with von in it if you're allied and probably something with st in it  if your German. For some highly improbable reason your naval/air force colleagues  have forgotten how to use their ships/ aircraft and for some equally improbable reason you have to load your tanks aboard your landing ship and Sally forth to sink the enemy.

Given these facts which particular tanks would you choose and why to form the turrets of your "battleship"

[Father Ennis]

Interesting idea.  However, why would you want the "cargo" for gun turrets ?  Once off loaded, the ship would be defenseless. What sort of mission is this ?  This would determine what would be best for the mission ops.  I've played Battletech for over 25years and made many similar operations and without this you can end up with slow heavy tanks going against large numbers of fast light or medium tanks that pick away at them until they are all destroyed or out of action by damage. What about ground troops and other vehicles ?  Air assets or support ? What about them? Who has them ? 

          Good idea but just needs fleshing out a bit. 

[kerick]

You would need the gunlaying software the M-1 Abrams and the M-2/3 Bradley uses to keep the gun on target while on the pitching ship. IIRC it was derived from Navy software. I believe the technology could be an upgrade to M-60 series tanks.

[Captain Canada]

Shermans ! Small(ish) and nice and boxy, so you could pack the deck nice and tight. You could also put some DDs on board and get them off the deck and onto the beach early. You could also leave a few on board to defend the ship. And heck, they were so abundant you could permanently attach a few turrets as stand alones.....

[tigercat]

Ok the German merchant raider Puffin is moored in a cove  on an island just off shore reparing storm damage. You need to sink her or if you want to use german kit  same scenario but the Armed Merchant cruiser Alcatraz.

[NARSES2]

AS the Capt says Shermans on the allied side. Reasonable HE round which would be usefull against a merchant raider. Very few Brit tanks would be useful, although thinking about it possible Cromwell's with the 95mm howitzer ? Gun laying might be a problem as I'm not sure how much clearance the turrets would have over the hull sides, so would need to be indirect fire conned from the bridge - over/under type of thing.

Now are we actually sure this didn't happen ? I know I grew up in the age of Victor/Valiant etc but I swear I've seen something on this. Tanks on LC did fire at shore targets during the run in to the beach at D-Day and the 14th Army used 25pdrs on barges on the Irrawaddy at the end of WWII. Apparently their Lordships at the Admiralty were a bit peeved because Slim had named them without seeking permission first   

[kerick]

I think I know what you mean about tanks on LCs firing on the beaches on D-Day. IIRC they were tanks being transported to the beach, not tanks dedicated to off-shore fire support. The armored LC or other small ship loaded with improvised tank turrets is always a great whiff.

[tigercat]

How about Sherman Calliope's just to put the fear of god into everyone involved.

[loupgarou]

On D-Day, Centaurs (a variant of Cromwell) armed with 95 mm howitzers were prepared to be used from onboard LCT, chained down, even had degress painted on the turret sides to give aiming directions.
Using LCT, the sides are quite low, tank turrets are quite higher.
Using tank turrets "directly" is quite common, russians did it on river gunboats, the french had an assortment of strange contraptions in Indochine, and I think also USA did the same in Vietnam.

[crudebuteffective]

in the 1960s/70s there was a plan to use centurion tank turrets on RN patrol boats of the castle class (rebuilding the royal navy brown and moore)

[pyro-manic]

How far offshore are we talking? Might be easier just to build ramps and shell the target from your own shoreline. If it's a merchant raider it won't have much  in the way of armour, but it'll still be a decent size - much larger than a destroyer or corvette. You'd need a high volume of fire and lots of hits to do enough damage. A Sherman had a ~3" (75mm) gun with a reasonable HE shell. I'd prefer something bigger if possible - 25-pounder field guns or similar would be better. Another option would be US 90mm or British 3.7" QF anti-aircraft guns. Mount a battery of those to your landing craft deck (maybe bodge together a raised platform for them to be anchored to) and they'll deliver a decent punch. Alternatively the self-propelled artillery (M7 Priest etc) or 105mm howitzer-armed Shermans would be useful.

Or approach the problem from another angle. If the terrain permits it, just land your tanks on the island and roll them over to where the raider is moored. Avoid all the messy bobbing-up-and-down stuff, and possibly catch the target unawares. Point-blank sustained tank fire at a target that'd be hard to miss (big, stationary, close).

[jcf]

The tank deck of the various LST classes was just above the waterline inside the vessel.
The tanks were not in a place where their turrets could be used for anything other than blowing
holes in the side of the ship.  The top decks were not stressed to carry tanks.

The LCTs had an open tank deck, but not the LSTs. The LCG(L) - Landing Craft Gun (Large) landing
support vessel was an LCT mounting 4.7" naval guns.

All that said I suppose one could extemporize gunports through the side of an LST through
which the tank guns could poke. 

"Fire on the roll Sgt. Oddball, 'ware the negative waves."

[Hobbes]

In real life there were the LCT(R), LCG(L) and LCA (HR):

[Old Wombat]

Allied: Sherman Firefly, the 17pdr gives you good armour piercing & HE alternatives - possibly the best of the allied tank guns.

Axis: Tiger I, the 88mm for all the same reasons as the 17pdr - possibly the best of the axis tank guns.

Either case would probably necessitate indirect fire over the bow of the LCT to avoid excessive roll of the boat. Direct fire could possibly be achieved by making a front ramp which folded down but was not so low as to allow excessive water into the vessel.

Main aim would be to damage the engines, boilers or screw-shaft before attempting to sink the ship, thus preventing it from running away or ramming & sinking the much slower & smaller LCT(s)



Guy

[tigercat]

So 25 pounder hmm a couple of Bishops then. Although they d be a pig to aim.